337. Redefining Success: Victoria Song on Conscious Leadership and Fulfillment

Hey there, I'm Sandee Sgarlata and welcome to the Happiness Solved podcast. Twice a week, we explore the journey to finding true happiness by sharing inspiring stories, practical tips, and insightful conversations with some of today's leading experts. But we don't just scratch the surface. We dive deep into the real grit of what it takes to live a genuinely happy life.

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Victoria, such a pleasure to see you today. How's it going? Likewise. It's going great. Just had some nice breakfast with my husband.  Are you on the West Coast? I'm in Utah. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, that's  Different time zone. I'm in the D. C., so it's afternoon  for us, but, uh,  great. All right, so  you do so many amazing things, and I know you've worked with, um, billion dollar companies such as, um, let's say you had Peter Rive, celebrities like Cindy Crawford. 

You're the author of Wall Street Journal best selling book, Bending Reality, how to make. The impossible probable and you're a Forbes 30 under 30 venture capitalist, Yale University and Harvard Business School alumni. Wow.  Incredible, incredible, um,  resume there, Victoria. It's like I'm suddenly feeling a little like, okay, you know, Yale and Harvard MBA grad.

Okay. 

That's really awesome. So  first of all, I want to hear about your story. Um, you're obviously incredibly brilliant, but what, what made you want to go into this realm of personal development?  I love the name of your book. We're going to talk about that. But, but was there a turning point in your, in your life, in your career where  I'm going to walk away from venture capitalists and do this?

Like, what was that moment like for you? What, what happened? That Yeah. So I still work a lot with entrepreneurs as you saw in my bio. Um, but I found that when I was a venture capitalist, that it wasn't really about like the business model or like a new tactic that wasn't typically what was holding the CEO back.

It really required like a deep personal transformation for their leadership, for their vision, for. You know, their courage to come online. And so I found that more important, more bigger needle mover than business transformation was really that personal transformation. And that's why I left, um, essentially that plus seeing and witnessing so many brilliant, wealthy, successful CEOs that felt.

They lacked freedom, they lacked fulfillment, they lacked health, they lacked relationships, you know, and I just sort of felt like, what's the point of having influence and impact if you feel like you don't have freedom or fulfillment? And so I now really help my clients become wildly successful. So really achieve things beyond their wildest dreams. 

However, do it in a way that brings peace and fulfillment and freedom so they don't burn out. So in some ways it's like we're replacing that hustle and grind with like ease and speed.  I love it. Hustle and grind to ease and speed. Love that. Um, that's really incredible, incredible because  me and my colleagues are actually, um,  Doing a live event.

And it's, it's all about that. I love that. It's all about that because there's so many people out there who have achieved so much success and then in there, but they're, they're just not happy. Yeah. They're unfulfilled  and they don't understand how  their personal way of being and their personal way of showing up. 

completely flows into their, into their work. You know, there really is that work life balance, and it doesn't mean  balancing the amount of time that you spend in each. It's understanding how  the two parts of our lives intersect  and living in a way that  complements both, I guess.  Yeah, I mean, hustle and grind to ease and speed.

I mean, you said it perfectly right there.  Yeah, I love that. So,  tell me about this book, Bending Reality. Like, what is Can you explain, I understand what you're talking about. What do you mean by bending reality when it comes to your book? Yeah. So similar to what we were talking about, like the state of their being, we're always bending our reality.

It's just many of us are doing so unconsciously and in a direction that we don't want. Right. So if we're living from this contractive place of fear and doubt and stress and anxiety and worry and like trying to prove something to themselves or the world that they finally matter or they're successful enough.

That with that contractive energy is actually bending the odds out of their favor. It's almost like walking a tightrope. There's nothing we're going to be better or more effective at if we're actually walking a tightrope. And then the more meaning we make about like, I have to make this thing happen with this urgency and time crunch.

It's almost like we're just putting that tight rope on a taller building. And can we do anything effectively for walking a tightrope across a sky no. And yet that is how most people are living their lives. And it's really holding them back. And so what I teach my clients is how to bend reality, bend the odds in their favor.

So once you realize that you have been bending your reality, of course, the next question is, well, how do I bend reality toward what I want? And so that's why the tagline is how to make the impossible probable. Uh, and so it's really teaching people, how do we really be mindful of all the ways that we might be consciously and unconsciously through the thoughts and feelings and behaviors and actions that we take Bend our odds in our favor by operating expansively. 

So all the tools, all the methodology and techniques that I use my clients and I talk about in the book, um, really help make the state of expansion, which is like courage, trust, power, surrender, gratitude, you know, all these feel good energies. It makes it your default state of being. So to me, that is when we are highest peak performing is when we can operate from this more expansive state versus that really like tight grip on life state. 

I love it. I've been talking about for years now, um, about your getting into your zone of genius because, um, I'm a peak performance expert and I'm actually am launching a new television show, which is called the Peak Performance Playbook,  but it's all around sports. But it's the same thing, but  it's getting into that zone of genius.

And the reason I chose to make my, my new show tailored on sports is because I really feel like today's athletes are tomorrow's leaders, because when you are an elite athlete, you understand what getting into that consciousness is because everything you're talking about is consciousness and becoming a conscious leader.

Yeah. Right. From being just a, just a leader to a conscious leader where, where you're thinking about staying in that zone, right? Because  CEOs, they're in their zone of excellence all the time, right? Yeah.  They're always in their zone of excellence, but they're still stressed, frustrated, their, their choices are ego driven instead of conscious driven.

Yeah. Right. Right. And imagine a world where we have leaders that  are making decisions. From a place of consciousness or love, as opposed to ego or fear. Exactly. Yeah. So that's what I found,  um, is that everyone is teaching this on some, and some terminology, as you mentioned. So  higher frequencies that maybe someone who's spiritual understands someone in the business world is like, what are you talking about frequencies, right?

I just use more simple framework of contraction versus expansion because contraction is. The ego drivenness, it's the fear, the doubt, it's the physical sensation in the body of a limitation, right? People can wrap their head around that no matter if this is their first person development book, you know, and then this expansive state where you feel like your chest is open, your breathing is slowed down.

You're in that flow state, you're in your zone of genius, you're in that peak performance. Um, what some people might call like expansive frequencies, expansive consciousness, right? So I really distilled it down into what I find simple terms that someone. Skeptical or very analytical can wrap their head around. 

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So what do you find has been the best way for somebody to really recognize, right? Because you're going to have these, um, egos, right? And, and men,  generally speaking, tend to have, tend to operate more ego based because of the masculinity behind it, right?  What do you find to be the best method to help people recognize when they're  showing up in that way?

So that, so that for the listener,  oh, is that me? Like, can you, can you distinguish that?  Yeah. So the line on ego that I love is from that con and it says the ego is an imaginary identity identity of a overstimulated nervous system. So it's like when your nervous system is super wound up, you're activated, you're triggered, you're in that fight or flight mode.

You have this thing called an ego that shows up, right? And another way of putting that, I think is that the ego is sometimes the unhealed wounds of our inner child. Yes. So that really inflamed personality shows up as an ego. And I think that part of why men even have it more than women per se is because men are even more disconnected from their emotions.

And in my work, it's really through feeling that we heal. And so if men are really disconnected from feeling their emotions and they're even going to be more frozen and blocked in that kind of wounded place, essentially. And so what I teach in my book is like, Really just being able to ask yourself when we talk, we talk about this right now, it's like, if you were to imagine the last seven days and event not going the way you wanted it to, you know, and just kind of feeling into that somatic state of what that feels like in your body, you would notice like, well, my chest is tightening up and my breathing is shallowing.

And I'm kind of feeling like, um, you know, a little bit of fear. I'm starting to sort of worst case scenario plotting. I'm starting to worry about. Jumping to conclusions, you know, like all of that comes through when we're in this contracted state. And on the opposite side of, I really like saying, you know, in the last seven days, what went really well, what was really pleasant.

You'd be like, Oh, I noticed like, when I feel into this pleasant moment, my chest is opening up. My heart feels more open. My breathing is actually like calmer and flowy or, you know, and, and it actually feels like it's very easy to. See and sense possibilities from here. Like everything feels possible from the state.

And so the first code in bending reality is just really to pause and ask yourself in this very moment, do you feel contracted or expanded in your body? And it's really incredible because it's just a felt sensation and you know, it immediately. It's just that we tend to live in a world that. Disconnects from sensations in the body, because we're all living in our heads.

So it does take a moment where you're like, Oh, if I just breathe and feel into this moment, I realize, yeah, everything is super tightened. I can feel like my heart sort of like shutting and closing it's off and guarding itself. And everything is sort of tightening down my center channel is what contraction feels like.

Yeah. I love that. And  you know, the thing is, is it's a practice, right? Like anything else.  And that's what I have always found.  So challenging to get to get across from people, you know, especially for, for men. Sorry, guys, don't mean to be picking on men today. And certainly not. I just know from  three brothers, I have a son on my second husband. 

I've been surrounded by men.  And the thing is, is like,  they just don't recognize it. I mean, they're happy to go out and work on their golf game,  right? Four or five days a week, they go out and they practice golf. But,  but taking that moment to pause.  You know, and even like, you know what I said, like, put your hand on your heart and just kind of breathe into it.

How am I feeling? Just like recognizing that. And a lot of people, there's just a resistance there. Yeah. You know, and, and I, you know, I've had this show now for almost four years.  And like, just, just  people want it, but I don't understand, maybe, maybe you have, maybe this is something they teach you at Harvard.

I don't know, like, how do you break through? Like, cause I know people have to want it, right? They have to want, but if they don't want it, then they're not going to even try.  Yeah. So I would say like in my book and the reason why I actually work with a lot of men is because everything is positioned as. Do you want to be wildly successful as quickly as possible?

Like, do you want to be, you know, really achieving your dreams above and beyond? And that's very motivating. Every, you know, guy who wants to work on his golf game, wants to see real progress being made. They want to see tangible results. They want to see things that are make them more money. You know, if you actually keep it there into terms that actually matter to them, they're motivated.

But it easier to say like, Hey, do you want to be more emotionally vulnerable? So you can have deeper relationships and connections. And that's a little bit too fuzzy and not, you know, valuable to. So, uh, so I think that's how we kind of get around it is I really don't. You know, personally take my client anywhere that they're going to have resistance.

I really go meet them where they're at with what them. And then I use language and tools that will resonate with where they are in their consciousness journey. Um, and, and that's partly why I think, I'm, you know, chosen by these business leaders just because I went to Yale and I went to Harvard business school.

So I'm bringing this lens that's bridging business and mysticism, science and spirituality, you know, so for them, I'm not like someone who's just all woo. They're kind of like, Oh, for the first time, you're saying this in a way that actually makes sense for me and that I can get behind,  you know, versus something that sounds a little bit too spiritual. 

Yeah. And I think that that, that is a resistance there. Because spiritual spirituality means something different for everyone.  And,  and I usually like if, if I'm being interviewed, I usually say, you know, I'm, I'm going to talk to you in a way that's spiritual, not religious. Right. Cause I always want to distinguish that.

Yeah. Because for me, that's spirituality. Is Jesus Buddha, Allah, the universe, God, you know, whether a chair, right? Like anything, right? It's just, it's, it's just a, a different power force. And, um,  you know, but the thing is what I, what I think is also great with you having those credentials is that we do have schools today, such as Yale and Harvard.

And. Other,  you know, phenomenal universities across the world that are studying spirituality and they're studying energy and how the energy moves through us and how our thoughts do emit frequencies and things like that. It's an exciting time to be alive. We're finally like going to understand the science of spirituality, right? 

And the universe and how the universe, you know, what role that plays in, in our daily lives. So that that's really exciting, really exciting. So.  So tell me about how you made that transition, because, and, and I want to, I want it to come from a place of, so that the audience, because that's kind of a big thing, and I think we're, we're facing that more than ever in today's world,  especially this year, um, where many people are questioning what they're doing  and why they're doing it. 

What was it like for you to go from being this, this Forbes 30 under 30 venture capitalist?  Do we like, no, I'm going to do this now. Can you walk our listeners through some of that, the process that you took and the mindset that you took? Cause that's kind of a big leap. That's a really big leap.  Yeah. I'll tell you what I did.

And then I'll also kind of, um, put it within this framework of usually the sexier and more prestigious a job sounds, the more of a trap it's probably for our heart and our soul, for what's like actually aligned for us. And the less sexy it is and sort of eye rolling it is the more likely it's probably your unique path for life, you know?

Um, so I'll just say that. And as I tell the story, you'll understand what I mean. So when I went to Yale and Harvard, like everyone wanted to go in finance, I did work at Goldman Sachs. I worked at Google X in my early twenties. Like I did all the things that are considered prestigious. And I found myself there and just surprisingly was just Um, I was so unhappy and so unfulfilled, um, but kept telling myself, well, I should just be grateful because look at my life.

Like everybody wants this job. I even had  peers of mine who were still trying to break into venture capital. Many of them are like, well, I'm going to go become a successful, successful entrepreneur.  So that I can finally come back into venture capital. So it was like, that was the end all be all for a lot of people.

So I'm sitting there thinking like, Oh, who am I to be unhappy? Like, I just need to count my blessings more and just be, you know, more grateful for my life because this is a dream job. Um, and then I started to realize like, gosh, I, I, I had my version of like an existential awakening slash, you know,  crisis breakdown, you know, it was like, I started just getting really like almost depressed when I acknowledged everyone from like my best friends from school to my family, my parents who are entrepreneurs, but are always like, so disconnected from,  Life and family, because they're just so busy hustling and struggling and sacrificing to my brother, to, you know, all of these successful entrepreneurs that are multi billion dollar companies that we're backing.

And I just saw that they all kind of share the same Kind of void. And it was like, they were looking to fill the void and all the wrong places. And just watching that and seeing that it was like, just so clear and apparent across the board, honestly made me feel very depressed and very sad. And I kind of felt the sense of like, what's the point of helping people save more time or extend life through the technologies that we're investing in.

If like people don't even know how to be happy with the time you already have, you know, so. Just asking myself those sort of existential questions made it such that I couldn't really be happy. It was sort of like when your eyes open up and you can't unknow or unsee what you start to notice everywhere.

And it was just to become painful where I was like, I can't just go to work and pretend that everything's fine. When the people I most care about are like very miserable and we're just supposed to pretend it's normal and like not notice everyone's miserable and just go  Our work. And that was just something that once again, like I saw it, it, it really shook me.

And it made me start to feel like I have to find a way, my unique way of contributing or like helping  bring, as you would call it, like raise humanity's consciousness or like help quote unquote, wake people up or like whatever that is. Kind of little intention. I had after reading the alchemist, you know, 10 years ago.

Um, so that would sort of like the, the innocent naive kind of intention that I had when I had my existential awakening. Um, and then I also just sort of recognize like, wow, you know, I feel like I'm in a really unique position having come from those really like elite worlds of achievement and success, but also really deep.

Going so deep into ancient wisdom and spiritual laws and really understanding kind of what is that disconnect because I'm a high performer myself, you know? So it's like, I really get what motivates that high performer to, you know, the ends of stress and anxiety in order to finally prove something about themselves and the motivations of that high performer.

It was like I was that person. And now I'm like on my journey to finding a new way forward. Right. So yeah. Yeah. I do feel that that was part of just my existential awakening or my soul kind of finally waking itself up and being like, no, there has to be a better way. Um, and then coming into the unsexiness now, like when I told my friends that I was going to leave to go do this thing called coaching, like I got a lot of eye rolls and a lot of like, you're going to become a life coach.

Like that sounds cute. And don't you not make a lot of money doing that? Who's going to hire you? You're like younger than all these people that you would potentially be advising. So, you know, I just got a lot of that and that can be really, um, difficult, you know, like it's kind of the, the thing where when you go to that networking event and people ask you what you do, you're kind of like, I don't really want to talk about it.

Cause like, I don't really know how to talk about it in a way that I really understand how to.  You know, that has the same prestige as saying that I went to venture capital, right? So it was definitely like a little bit of a, um,  uh, self conscious transition for me. Like I kind of preferred nobody to ask me like what I do for a living.

Um, but at some point I really did actually start to identify and realize what I started the story with, which is, Gosh, like it's really the least sexy thing that almost looks a little silly to the outside world that is probably masking the very thing that is meant for you, right? Like you're like maybe distracted by the shiny trap of prestige and what seems really hard to get.

Cause if I get the really hard to get thing that everyone's gonna be so impressed with me versus I did the thing that everybody thought was sexy. It's silly and laughable and kind of like, who does she, she thinks she is. And then now it's like, everything has just been effortless. Like feels like it's been clockwork smooth for me since I made this transition.

And it's because I let myself do the more aligned thing, even though it didn't impress people the same way.  Yeah, for sure. And it's because of that alignment that, you know, when we're not in alignment with our purpose,  the universe understands that because there's a resistance that's happening. Right, yeah, trying and you're pushing and you're trying to make this work and you're if it's not fully in alignment.

That's what's going to happen, right? Because the universe doesn't understand. It's everything in the universe is neutrality.  It's all neutral, right? And so whether you're thinking happy thoughts or negative thoughts, the universe doesn't know. You're, you're, you're thinking happy thoughts are going to get more happy back because you get back what you put out.

You're putting out more negative thoughts. The universe doesn't know that it's negative. It just knows, okay, you want, okay, let's give you more of that. You want more of it. You're feeling great. We'll give you more of it. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And that's why I think that life is meant to be painful in order for you to wake up and realize I need to change.

Yes. Out of alignment. It's supposed to be painful.  And, and, and like it or not,  we're in this world.  There's there, there has to be, you know, you have,  in order to have darkness, you have light. Yeah, there's the yin and the yang, the duality. Thank you. It was slip. That was word was slipping my brain. Um, but, but yeah, in order to, you know, you got to have the rain in order to see the rainbow and like all of those things have to happen in order for us to wake up.

Wow. Yeah.  So when you were telling your story, I was curious, did you have a mentor or somebody that was That you had that you could talk to to give you guidance as you were making this transition. I had so many I hired over 25 coaches. Oh my gosh.  Yeah, I've been like a power user of coaching and therapy and healing and all the things which is why I think it was like.

You know, obviously inevitable that I would eventually move into this path myself.  So, yeah, I do feel like, you know, like maybe 11 years ago I hired a life coach. And since that I've hired a sex coach, a business coach of, you know, energy healer coach, a spiritual coach, a feminine empowerment coach. Like I've hired every kind of coach under the sun since. 

Um, and yeah, I do feel that it's so important to, um, yeah, have that guidance and to really find people who are living embodiment of the thing that you want, whether it's freedom or abundance or success or love or whatever it is more aliveness in your life. Like I was definitely. Drawn to, you know, working with people who, um, were able to teach me all of these little different puzzle pieces.

And, um, and that's really how I was able to create my book was because I've been studying  so many modalities, so many different frameworks, so many different kinds of coaching. And I was starting to just. And I wanted to see this meta framework emerge where it was like, wow, everyone in different words is sort of teaching the same thing.

And if I were to distill this complex concept into something that's really like easy to understand and actionable and almost obvious to you once you see it, it would be bending reality the book. So that's why I created my book was to distill it all down.  I love it. I love the name of it. Bending reality.

That is so cool. So what was the best advice you've ever received?  Ooh, that's a really good question. I mean, I've had so many great  advice. Um, 

you know, I think in every area of life, there's probably like different like money advice and love advice and things like that. But I would say across the board,  perhaps, um,  one of the lines that really stuck with me is.  Results don't take time. They take courage. Results don't take time. They take courage.

That's awesome.  Yeah. And that has really just become like a subconscious programming for me. You know, like I think part of why I get really collapsing time around results and challenges is because I just live my life that way. I don't feel like, Oh, well, if I want to get there, it's going to take 10 years because, you know, I have to climb these ladders.

It's sort of just like, Oh, I hold my vision and things happen at warp speed because I show up at the most courageous Powerful, confident, self trusting version of me. And that always seems to get the results, you know, more than, uh, longer time getting a diploma or anything else. Right. Oh my gosh. I love that.

What great, what great words of advice for people because it's really so true. You know,  all those little sayings, folks, you may think they're quirky or, or whatever, but they, they're, they're truth. And if you can find that one  and it may change, I have, I have up on my board. I change it. My mind just says, you're not getting this day back.

I love that. Right? Like, like little things that you can put around to help remind you. Right? Like affirmations.  Yeah. You're not getting this day back. Yes. But I love that results don't take time. They take courage.  Yes. Yeah. I love it. Well, thank you for showing up  as you  unapologetically you, cause that's how I like, like, I love that when people just show up unapologetically authentic, like here I am, here I am.

I love it. Yeah. We're actually studying, you know, about magnetism and frequency. We're now studying that authenticity and alignment emits a greater electromagnetic field than even like mind, heart coherence, you know? Yeah, and where's one of the things I put it behind me. I had a guest. It's back there. I'm getting ready to go on a retreat and I'm taking it with me, um, who created the love tuner. 

It's called a love tuner. And it's when you do breathing exercises, you slowly breathe out and it emits the frequency, the sound, which is  528.  Bigger Hertz, which is the frequency of love. Now they're saying that authenticity is an even stronger, it's even stronger, it's even stronger. Even higher, stronger frequency than love, which is crazy because we thought love was the answer and love was it.

And now it's authenticity,  right?  And like not everybody knows, understands that.  So you give your, give your definition of that and then I'll, I'll, I'll piggyback whatever, you know, the way I think about it is that it's almost like we're all antennas or we're all kind of these, um, sending and emitting, sending, emitting, and also receiving frequencies.

And it's a, it's like being on a radio station that if you aren't congruent and you don't have mind heart coherence, you're out of alignment, you're inauthentic. It's like hitting that static radio station where you're like, I can't quite hear it. Like I can't get a clear signal. But when you are actually aligned and congruent and authentic, you have that mind heart coherence, all of a sudden it's like a loud, clear, crisp, beautiful signal.

And when you radiate that signal, you are able to actually also magnetize back, you know, what it is that you're calling in because you're, you're like a beacon that's actually able to be heard by others and attract who's right for you because you have a clear signal versus when you have static and noise  Who knows what that's a match for, and it's all diluted down and you're not getting a strong frequency out or in.

I love that. And I was just envisioning, like when we used to have the actual dials in your carbs, maybe some still do, and you have to just slightly tune it in to get rid of that static. Where's that static? Yeah. Yeah. I love that. That was awesome. Yeah. Yeah. Because  showing up, it's just  being who you are. 

And like, again, unapologetically, like this is who I am. If you don't like it, Oh, well, right. And you come back to bravery. It's like, it's a lesson all have, but not all of us are courageous enough to actually be ourselves, right?  Because I think that many times.  you're projecting onto other people what you think they want to see from you.

Yeah. You're projecting. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Oh, you know, I need to show up this way. Well, no, you just show up.  Yeah. Yeah. And we're to be right for some people and not right for others, but no one will know if you're sending out a noisy signal.  Right. And I always tell, you know, I, I work with a lot of people on, um, using media to explode their brand,  but it's like, for me, How I show up, how I'm showing up right now is how I show up on a live television interview.

It's how I show up at a networking event. I'm meeting my girlfriend for dinner tonight. I will show up the exact same, like there's one version of Sandy. This is it.  And, and everywhere I go, like, they're like, Oh my God, you're, you talk just like you do on your podcast. I'm like, Yeah. I do.  Because it's me.

That's just me. Right. So I'm going to show up. Right. And I don't think everybody truly understands that. It's just, just be yourself. Yeah. And all the time. Yeah. That's such a good sign, actually, for when you're not in a career, that's an alignment. Like that's part of my signal that I wasn't in the right place was I couldn't be myself.

Yeah. Finance.  Wow. Well, I'm so I'm just proud of you for taking that leap. Thank you. Because.  I'm sure they're, well, I'm not, I'm, I'm making assumptions here, but I'm guessing there was probably family who may have paid for your education and be like, what do you mean you're leaving? You know,  actually, my, my venture capital firm paid for me to go to Harvard business school.

Um, so, and then I came back.  Yeah. But, but, but yes, they were like, what do you mean you're leaving?  Well, you know, and I remember, I remember 20 years ago, um, with my ex husband and at, at one of his company events. And there was one of the wives that I was talking to and she was a medical doctor and she decided not to go back to practice medicine so she can stay home with her children.

And that was just so upsetting to me. I'm like, how can you be a medical doctor? And you're just going to throw it all away to stay home with your children. 20 years later today, I'm like, good for her. Yeah. So authentic. Yeah. That's good for her.  Just because you have a medical degree or a law degree or anything doesn't mean you need to waste your life in a profession that it doesn't serve you.

Yeah. Yeah.  And you know what? So often, you know, it's going to go back to  our high school years and early college years that people are, you should do this and you should do this and you should do that. Yeah.  Well, maybe, maybe what people should do is not go to college for the first year out of high school to figure it out.

Agreed. And my colleagues who went to Yale and Harvard, they're particularly good at doing what they're told they're supposed to do. So it's even harder for them to break free.  Yeah, of course, of course, because it's just so drilled down into you, I'm sure. Oh my gosh, Victoria, this was such a great conversation and we could talk for hours, but  thank you so much.

Is there anything else that you didn't talk about that you'd like to mention? And then also let people know where they can find your book and how to get ahold of you. Yeah, well, when you mentioned you're going to retreat, I was like, well, I want to tell people that I'm hosting retreats actually. So thanks to anybody who's, you know, that business mind and spiritual mind and wants to, you know, make their goals happen at work speed.

Like we're going to have a retreat actually. The next one is coming up in August 22nd to 25th, but we have them about quarterly. So I can share that with anyone interested in joining us. Yeah. Is, um, will that be on your website? Yes, it will be on my website. So I'll make sure everyone has it after. Okay.

Perfect. Yeah. We have, um, your website is Victoria song. me.  That's right. Yeah. Okay, perfect. And we have your Instagram handle and then a link to your courses as well. That'll go in the show notes. All right. Awesome. Thank you so much.  Continued success with your book. It's definitely, um, I love the name. I'm going to have to pick it up since I'm going to be flying next week.

I'll, uh,  That'll be a good read for on the plane. I feel like we'll be very aligned. Yeah, for sure. Without question.  All right, Victoria, thank you so much. It was so great to see you today. And thank you to everybody who's tuned in. Yeah, thank you, Sandy.