331. From Gymnast to Guide: Helping Men Discover Their Worthiness with Brandon Clift

00:00:06
Hey there. I'm Sandee Sgarlata, and welcome to the Happiness Solve podcast. Twice a week, we explore the journey to finding true happiness by sharing inspiring stories, practical tips and insightful conversations with some of today's leading experts. But we don't just scratch the surface. We dive deep into the real grit of what it takes to live a generous, genuinely happy life.

00:00:30
Whether you're looking to improve your well being, enhance your relationships, or simply add more joy to your life, you're in the right place. So grab your favorite beverage, get comfortable, and let's dive into today's episode, because happiness is a choice, and the choice is yours.

00:00:47
Brandon Clift, such a pleasure to have you on my show today. You're looking just as handsome as ever. That gorgeous smile. How you doing, Sandy? It is a pleasure to be here and I'm excited for the conversation we're about to have.

00:01:02
And, yeah, it's a great opportunity to share what we're doing on this side of the world and what we're doing in our communities around men's work and emotional intelligence. So I'm grateful for the opportunity. Oh, well, thank you. And I was thinking just now we did an introductory call, which I don't do that often, but we were just connecting. And because I had seen somewhere that you were from Tennessee, I expected the southern accent, and then it was like, whoa.

00:01:32
Yeah, no, I'm from the, I'm from the deep south. You see. The deep, deep south. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

00:01:38
So, and you're, you, you earned a nomination for young entrepreneur of the year. You're a former australian gymnast and you decided to leave traditional business behind. And so how about if you just tell the audience what you're doing now and how you got to this point where you really are committed to that transformational men's work through the mankind project, which sounds just incredible. Yes. So I'm going to give you the very abridged version because time is tight.

00:02:11
It's remarkable what can happen in a relatively short period of time. So, yes, I grew up in Australia, a very familiar environment, beach, surf, family. I had a, had a, you know, a relatively successful business as a young person, which has gotten, which has got me involved with like, the young entrepreneur awards and such like that. And what was so wild for me was the, the journey my ego took along that, along the way. It's amazing how easy it was for me to, to meld my, my sense of self in with the success of my business.

00:02:49
So when things were going great, oh, my gosh, I was, you know, up in the clouds when things were going horrible. I didn't want to come out from under the rock that I was hiding under. So that was a pretty messy, ugly, but remarkably healing journey to kind of identify that, you know, there really wasn't a lot of fulfillment in it for me. I thought that having more money, having more status, was going to solve any problems that I perceived myself to have, and that just wasn't the case. Despite how I was warned by many people my senior, they warned me.

00:03:27
They said, Brandon, just be careful now. Like, don't build too much meaning or importance around XYZ. And I thought it was them just trying to keep me small, trying to limit my upward mobility, and they were bang on. I mean, I really should have listened to them. But, of course, you can't change anything as it happens.

00:03:45
So, you know, at around 25, I decided that it's really not worth that. The juice is not worth the squeeze. So I sold my first business and decided to take a bit of a sabbatical. So me and the dog took off backpacking around south and Central America. Made it to the States.

00:04:01
Yeah. And I started doing van life for a while, traveling around in a camper van, and really just kind of needed that Jack Kerouac personal kind of heroes journey, in a sense, getting away from what was familiar, what was comfortable, and it was very necessary for me to grow up. What helped me find that awareness and how I was surrounded by the people that gave me those insights was my involvement in men's groups. I was very fortunate. From a young age, my dad got involved with men's groups.

00:04:31
And so from nine years old, I was meeting these men who just thought differently, that they behaved differently, men with self awareness, men with humility. And, of course, I witnessed my dad transformed through that experience as well, through that time. And as I was building my business and finding success, they were very good in keeping me grounded, but they. Not that it was their job. They were having a hard time kind of breaking through to me as a young 20 something, experiencing the trappings of success.

00:05:05
And it had to get really bad before it started to get good. And it gave me enough of a wake up call to realize that, man, Im 25. I can have another business if I need to or want to have another business. And I was starting to get really passionate around menswear when I took off to South America. When I took off to the States, I had this international network of men through the organization called the Mankind Project and the Mann Con project.

00:05:33
Is an international organization that sets up men's circles all over the world. Currently, we have over 750. In fact, I host one of those 750 here in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And those men were great places where I could really kind of practice in practice, me practice being able to communicate my emotions and the things that I was going through and to experience that environment. Having come from professional sport, where I had a lot of coaches guiding me, I was being critiqued on my performances.

00:06:08
To have men that weren't critiquing me and men that were just holding space and they weren't trying to fix me on my problem was quite a radical change from what I was surrounding myself with previously. So I really tried to shorten what has been quite a long and in depth journey there. But through, just through my travels, through my adventures, through doing the work, I was able to, you know, meet my wife and settle here in Tennessee. And now we have a 2020 month old daughter named Bindi, and we're just building a life together here in town. So it's just been a remarkable journey to this point.

00:06:47
I love it. I was just sitting here getting my, my, my remarkable tab. You know, I gave up the whole note work because you've said so many things that I don't want to forget. No, that's fine. I should get one of those because I have about 20 different legal pads, like, spread out my office.

00:07:04
Well, that's why I finally got it, because I've always been a note taker and I would have five different notebooks and I would be sitting there frantically trying to figure out which one did I use. And so I finally just got this. I normally don't take notes, but you just said so many wonderful things. So thank you for sharing that story. It's incredible.

00:07:28
I think I'm going to see if there's a mankind project, and I'm sure in the DC metro area there is. Oh, I guarantee you there is. We've got a couple circles up there. Yeah. And I think that would be, you know, because my son just graduated from college, he has a full time job, but I think it would be good for him to be around men with that growth mindset.

00:07:48
And you know what you're going to find in these spaces? Because we're not a religious organization. You're going to find men that are gay, straight, black, white, atheist, jewish, like every color of the rainbow, every spectrum, every political ideology. I mean, just in my community alone, we have guys that are pro Trump, pro Biden. We have guys that are very pious and religious.

00:08:08
We have guys that are completely atheist. Those aren't the, you know, the platforms of conversation or connection that we meet. Right. It's about meeting the individual man. And so I can guarantee you you've probably got a diverse group of guys up there in the DC metro area.

00:08:25
I don't know that it gets much more diverse than the Washington, DC area because of all the embassies, the government, you know, we kind of have everybody here. All right. You said so many things. And I'm going to start with the ego. How did you even understand the difference between when you're.

00:08:49
Because that's a lot of the work that I do and I focus on, obviously, peak performance, but conscious leadership, because there's two states of beings. You're either in consciousness or you're an ego, and consciousness is love and ego is fear. But we're always going to lean toward fear, ego, because that's our default as humans. It's just part of our DNA. How at such a young age, did somebody teach you about that?

00:09:23
Because it's not, you know, most men are more ego driven. And it takes a very strong man, in my opinion, right. Takes a very strong man to really be humbled enough to be like, oh, wow, you know, this is my ego talking. This isn't a, this isn't real. Well, I don't want to, I don't want to put out any illusions that I have won the battle.

00:09:54
Well, there you go. Yeah, it's a work. We're all a work in progress, honey. You know, the battle rage is on, that's for sure. Absolutely.

00:10:04
I think part of the work has been, well, first of all, how I got there was just eating dirt. Yeah. Was just like having truly humbling experiences. Right. You know, when I had employees that were dependent on the success or just even the regular, everyday function of my business to put food on the table.

00:10:23
And I myself was getting in the way of that being possible because of my ego, because of whatever stories I was telling myself. I had some really pretty serious come to Jesus moments in those processes, in that, in those experiences. And it's a constant kind of cycle of, you know, rinse, wash, repeat of, you know, thinking. And I think the funniest thing about the ego is it seems like the moments in my life where everything just seems so peachy and I truly have the self sense of contentment. If I, if I really let my guard down, that's when it loves to creep back in the.

00:11:04
And so the journey continues on that one. The battle continues, and some men, much wiser than myself were able to reflect. To me, it's very easy to demonize and attack the ego, but also look at how it may have served you up until this point, right? I mean, this sense of, there's something about, and you probably see this with the athletes that you work with. There's something about experiencing early success that almost makes it harder to succeed in the future.

00:11:35
Because where I am at the beginning of any project, I will compare that to the end result of a previous success, forgetting about what was needed to kind of work through. And it's almost like, man, I used to be so much more productive, and I used to get so many more things done when I didn't have the self awareness around it all. I was just charging forward. I had zero issues putting in an 80 hours weekend. I, and these days, now married with a child and with different values, I sometimes find myself being like, what did I even do today?

00:12:10
Regardless of the objective facts that I probably did a lot. It's this self narrative of, like, did I even push anything forward or closer to what I wanted to achieve? Because it's so easy to think back to rapid advancement and upward mobility and success, which. What's the definition of that anyway? So, yeah, it's a constant.

00:12:34
It's a constant battle, but it's a battle that I'm in it to win it, for sure. And I purposely surround myself with people that love and care about me enough to call me in when it's starting to get out of control. They know the triggers, they know what it looks like. And I've also informed them how to call me in, because if they call me out, I'm just going to bite down on my mouth guard and keep going. So I love your authenticity.

00:13:00
Well, it takes a village. It takes a village. And I'm naive to think that there's any black belt in any of this, right? No, it's. It's continuous.

00:13:09
Yeah. And, like, every time I get through, like, a major thing, you know, you overcome a tremendous challenge. I'm like, is this it? Are we done? Because I really just want to be done.

00:13:26
Right. I want to be done and just live my life. But that's the beauty in it, right? That's the beauty in it is every time you go through challenges and you recognize that your ego is taking over because it's going to, until probably I take my last breath, you know, I'll be laying there going, the ego is going to be like, did you accomplish anything today, Sandy? You know, what'd you do?

00:13:48
What'd you do right? Did you do enough? Right. And then you'll shift it. Right.

00:13:54
But, but we're never really done, and that's, and I think that's the beauty of it, and, and that's just part of life, because when you do get through to the other side, it's, there's like this glorious awakening, like, wow. Yeah. And that keeps me moving forward. You know, it makes, makes complete sense, you know, something I've been tackling or just kind of thinking differently around has been, you know, for years. I've taught Joseph Campbell's hero's journey, my coachings, you know, be the, be the protagonist of the story, put the pen in your hands, find the guide and the mentor, surround yourself with people that are going to help you win the day, defeat the dragon, evolve, bring it back to the village, and evolve and grow.

00:14:34
And I've realized recently, whether through therapy or coaching my men's group, that, man, if I make myself the protagonist in everything, therein lies also the ego. And it's way, kind of sneaking in, like making everything about me. But the stakes seem higher. If I'm the hero, the stakes seem way too high. My decisions seem like there's way too much of weight that's attached to action or inaction.

00:15:02
And so something I've been practicing is kind of just letting go of assigning any meaning to kind of anything, you know, and just going with, going with the flow of things and just taking each day as it comes and I getting rid of some unrealistic KPI's or deadlines and just getting back to the core of what's important for me, my family, and what we're building in our lives. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I love that because that's really, as humans and that's really what the ego loves is to attach meaning on things. And when in reality, we always have a choice.

00:15:42
You can choose to see it positively, you can choose to see it negatively, or you can see it with neutrality. Oh, okay. Yeah, that happened. Yeah. Okay.

00:15:52
Now. Now this. Now what's next? It happened. Oh, yeah.

00:15:57
Yeah. And you just move on. That's felt easier. Right as, but again, I got my white belt on with that one. Just practicing it.

00:16:07
And it's kind of like, it's humbling in a sense, because I've spent eight years communicating through kind of the Campbell lens and the twelve stages of the hero's journey. And I think there's validity to that, especially for guys that are just completely stuck on the couch and don't have any sense of self or purpose, it's helpful. But, you know, in the capacity as a coach or facilitator that I have been for a while now to truly sit in that seat to be of service, you know, who am I to assume that I'm the person that's going to help anyone do anything, especially when I'm looking at from a me lens? Pat Riley from the Lakers, a coach of the Lakers said, the disease of me is the biggest challenge in any team, or it gets in the way of any progress towards a desired outcome or goal. And so to truly make the seat feel comfortable if I'm to coach and guide or facilitate someone, is to continuing to do that work to get myself out of it.

00:17:05
Yeah, yeah. Well, the energy that's around the resistance or, you know, when we're attaching meaning on it, there's an energy, especially if it's more of a negative, that right there is going to just pull you down and you can stay stuck in that place for a very long time if you're not aware enough to really recognize it. Oh, yeah. Got the t shirt. Yeah, yeah.

00:17:33
Same, same. There's probably a few awards back there from that. All right, so you're a gymnast. And when we had our first call together, that, that was really cool because I didn't, I didn't know that about you. And it was funny because when I first started back in my journey, because I took some time off away from writing books and podcasting and speaking and coaching and all that stuff, and I just happened to mention, yeah, you know, I'm a retired us national, international figure skating coach, and blah, blah, blah.

00:18:07
And this was like, on podcasts, I was like, wait, wait, stop. What? And they're, and I'm like, well, yeah, yeah, it's like no big deal. And they're like, yeah, it is a big deal. And I was like, oh, it's right.

00:18:19
It's just part of, it's part of who I am. It was 20 years ago, you know, I haven't coached skating in 20 years. And like. But it is a big deal. And I think, and it's so what, I love what you said because this is something that I've struggled with for so many years because of being a figure skater from the age of five years old and then coaching it, the critique, the judgment.

00:18:49
And that's something that, while I learned so much from that experience of being an elite athlete, that's something I don't miss because I still carry it with me today where I constantly feel like I'm being judged now. I recognize it right away. Right. I'm aware. Which is, that's all you need to do is just to be aware of it.

00:19:11
Like, nope, nope, nobody's judging me right now. But it was one of those things that, you know, certainly hindered my ability to overcome imposter syndrome and things like that when it arises, you know? What was your experience, like, constantly being critiqued and judged? Well, it wasn't a problem when I. Was winning, of course not.

00:19:39
But, yeah, when I was losing by 0.05, which was just basically a fraction of a toe point, right? Oh, yeah, it got to me for sure. And I think that's a continuous, it's a very understood narrative. You think of people that are hesitant to go to the gym. More often than not, what's their fear?

00:20:03
Everyone's gonna judge. Yeah. No one's looking at you. Nobody cares. Nobody cares.

00:20:11
Nobody cares. And in fact, the ones that care, the ones that matter, are the ones that are getting the least amount of most people's time and attention. It's so easy to think about the people that don't even matter, their opinions, their thoughts, especially now we're online. Who are the faceless people out there that are going to like or dislike this thing that I'm going to post or put out there? Like, who cares?

00:20:35
Who are the ones that matter? And if you were to say these, these things that are coming into your mind about the self judgment, the self critique, if I'm to say it out loud, just that first step, oftentimes on paper, I can go, well, that's just objectively stupid. Like, I can call B's on this story right now, but when I can share those things with my men's group or with my partner and my really close friends, the dudes that are going to be carrying my casket, there are also the people that can help me very quickly overcome those stories, call B's on them, so that I can get back to what's the objective truth behind it all. How familiar are you with Byron Katie? I love Byron Katie.

00:21:14
Yeah. For decades I've listened. She's remarkable. And just the work, right? The questions that, I love those, and I coach guys on those all the time.

00:21:26
It's, what's the story? What's the prevailing story right now that's coming up? And then ask them, is it true? Well, the ego wants to go, yeah, it's true. And I love the second question, which is, are you 100% certain that it's true?

00:21:38
And more often than not, it's a. No. The follow up question to that is, who do you become when you believe that B's story? I become this, I become that. I turn up in these ways.

00:21:49
I get small. I procrastinate. Okay, who would you be without that story? And it's, well, I would just move forward. I would commit to the seemingly insignificant, small actions that equate to a bigger goal.

00:22:04
I would not care what anyone thought. And ABC just enter all the examples and then between the two stories, right. If you flip the original between them, which is more true and more often than not, the B's initial story is disqualified. I love that process because it really cuts through the B's and gets to like, what is the story that's running and that judgment and critique that I experienced in gymnastics and how that's knocked on to later life. The volume's really loud when it comes in, and it's really easy to succumb to it.

00:22:37
But if I can have the wherewithal, like you said, the self awareness, to just call it as it is in the moment, it gets easier over time. It does get easier over time, but it is easier to also fall back in that trap and be like, man, I've been here before. How am I here again? So. Well, it's a practice.

00:22:57
You got to practice it just like you practice gymnastics. I practice skating today. I practice tennis. And, you know, it's a practice. And I get a little bit better.

00:23:07
Each time you practice and practicing patience with my daughter. Right? That's a big one. And it's never. It's never going to stop.

00:23:17
She learned. She learned. No. This week. Uh oh.

00:23:21
Yeah. You know. You know what no means. Oh, yeah. That's been.

00:23:25
She's so adorable when she says it, though. No. And I'm like, oh, that's cute, but you're going to eat the carrots. Yeah. Well, I read some stupid book when my son was probably about the same age as your daughter.

00:23:39
And for parents out there, don't read the books, just stay away from them. Because it was talking about giving them choices. And I think there's a lot of great things about that because you're teaching a child. That's life. We always have choices.

00:23:58
Number one, however, I didn't approach it that way. It was like, would you want chicken nuggets or would you like a hamburger for dinner? And then I would let them choose. And it was the same way in the store. This or that.

00:24:14
You can't have that. That cost $100. But here's, well, all it really did was. And this serves my son well. He is the most amazing negotiator.

00:24:26
So by the time he was eight, he could negotiate his way out of anything or into anything. Right. This is not a democracy. This is a dictatorship. Right.

00:24:39
Yeah, no, I totally, yeah, we haven't crossed that river yet, but I'm sure we will. And I'll call you crying at some. Point and be like, what do I do?

00:24:51
Oh, my goodness. So let's talk about some of the clients that you're working with. And because I want to get the message out there for other men, and I know you kind of focus on men in their thirties and forties. How have you been able to change some of the lives? And do you have, and obviously, you don't need to use names, but just hypothetically, what are some of the experiences that you've had with some of your clients?

00:25:23
Because I like you to share, like, a real life story so that the men listening can kind of be like, oh, wow, that sounds familiar. Yeah. There is hope for me. Right?

00:25:37
So have I changed anyone's life? I mean, they do the work. At the end of the day, of course, you as a figure skating coach, you're not getting out there and performing on behalf of them. They have to be the ones. But as a coach, can I ask the right questions or good enough questions so that they can answer the questions, answer the questions that they're posing to me or for themselves?

00:26:05
Because when the individual comes to the realization or comes to the awareness themselves with, say, some guidance from an objective third party like myself, it's far more empowering to want to do something about it. So I'll give you an example. I had a. Okay, so just this year, I had a guy reach out to me. He listens to my podcast, and he said, Brandon, I don't know if you're doing any coaching.

00:26:28
I know you've got a coaching background. Are you open to clients? And I thought, yeah, of course I am. I'm not very vocal or outward with my coaching just because it's, you know, takes quite a lot of energy, and I'm very selective on who I work with. So oftentimes my best clients come from unique circumstances that almost feel like serendipity in many ways.

00:26:50
And so he. I get on the phone call with him, and he wants me to hold him accountable while he transitions out of his government job. He's a medical doctor. Once he transitions out of his government job to open a functional medicine practice, I said, that's fine. Accountability is so easy.

00:27:11
And accountability can be broken down in the most simple way. You make an agreement if you don't keep it, what did you make more important than keeping the agreement? Right? What is the impact on you not keeping it? What's the impact on others?

00:27:22
Not you're not keeping that agreement. And what is driving the bus behind you? Either making agreements knowing you likely going to break them, or what, in the moment caused you to not follow through. And when you dig and get to the root of the broken agreement, it's amazing how many times I'm unworthy comes to the surface in my men's group. Just simple things.

00:27:46
You cheated on your diet, okay? Anyone, anyone would be like, yeah, start again on Monday, don't worry about it. And it's like, no, let's dig. And when you get to the bottom of it, it's like, well, what causes me to make agreements like this and break them is because I feel like I'm unworthy. And because I'm unworthy, why would I follow through?

00:28:07
Why would I do this thing for me if I'm not worthy of the results that I want? And so accountability is a very simple coaching methodology. Very simple. But as we started to work more and more together, just to give you some context, he is an Indian. His parents are indian.

00:28:26
They migrated to the states. He grew up in a culturally indian household, but in a western society, very different for them. Very, very different. Incredibly different. And so he's at 16, sitting down at the table and mum and dad are going, you're going to be a doctor.

00:28:46
Just so you know, you're going to be a doctor. And he wanted to go, say, into finance or something. So as I'm jumping ahead a little, but let's just say he signs up for six months of coaching. We're about four weeks in and we're making progress. Functional method.

00:29:02
He's getting the qualification to do it. He's getting the website lined up, he's found the brick and mortar location, he's building his strategic partnerships. Who's going to refer to him? Who's he going to refer to? We're doing all that stuff and we keep hitting a ceiling.

00:29:16
Something's getting in a way of the next steps of progress. And so that's where my background in men's work, we start to dig a little bit deeper and start to identify some of the, the motivations behind it. And that's where we start to uncover the stories that the, what was initially the motivation to get out of his government job, have a functional medicine practice, have the freedom to have his own business, not answer anyone really was more about him learning to have choice and choices in his life because he wasn't given those choices growing up. Right. That was the healing, that's the work right there.

00:29:55
And thank goodness we jumped off that goal because he probably would have ended up opening this practice and ending up in the same place that he is with his government job. We got to get to the guts of it, we got to get to the root of it. And we did some somatic work, we did some kind of gestalt work where he was able to move some emotions, there were some tears dropped, there was some anger expressed, and now he couldnt be happier in his government job, which he once hated. Yeah. And then were able to look at the life wheel, which is a very traditional I guess, life coaching exercise looking at all the different areas of life.

00:30:37
And it came to a point where generally where we got him in twelve weeks can often take like six months for the average Joe. And we're into the second pack of twelve sessions and I'm like dude, you're going to graduate from me. Just because he got to the root of it, his outward external life is reflecting back to him what it's like for him to have his choices. The mantra we created is what do I want? Because any of his decisions was what do my parents want?

00:31:07
What would look good? You know, my brother's a successful doctor and blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, what would other people think? No, no, no, what do you want? And that has become the lens in which he now, or the filter in which he now makes his decisions.

00:31:23
And so comes to the end of his six months and it's like dude, go. I mean I'm not trying to keep you around for any reason. If you don't need it, your goal is to graduate from me eventually. And so it was powerful. I mean I'm very much summarizing 24 hours of pretty deep work over a six month period, but at the end of the day it all comes back to doing the actual work, not just oh, I'm going to open the functional medicine practice and experience all these things just because of that end goal being achieved.

00:31:54
It's like nah man, what fuel source is driving this? Is it dirty coal that bogs down the engine or is it clean solar that's regenerative and renewable? So that's one example. There's so many that I can think of. I'm working with a young father right now who grew up in a pretty religious household.

00:32:16
He has since separated from the religion. But a lot of the conditioning he received from a young age is impacting his business decisions. It's impacting his relationship. And so he came to me primarily to be able to have.

00:32:32
It's fierce and tender. That's the balance I try and I try and achieve with clients because sometimes a lesson needs to land, like, a hand on the shoulder, and sometimes it needs to land, like, a kick between the legs. It just depends on where the man is at. Sure. And that's.

00:32:56
That's my, my goal is to be able to identify, like, what.

00:33:02
What energy can I meet the individual at where they are and from a compassionate, empathetic and loving place. But on the same token, um, client came this past week and found out some pretty, uh, sad news about his mum. Got a pretty bad diagnosis. And he had shared with me how much he had been held and supported. And I.

00:33:29
I took a risk and I didn't give him that, that holding of the hand. I didn't give him that support because he also had some very big. His company was doing layoffs and he was in charge of those layoffs. And I was like, dude, amidst all this, it's time to prove something to yourself. You got to stand up.

00:33:47
Stand up right now. Chin up, shoulders back, chest up, because you have a relationship, you have kids, you have work, you have responsibilities that still require you to show up right now. And I will be there any other moment than right now to hold your hand and support you through this objectively very difficult and sad thing. It doesn't change the fact that you've got some work to do. Yeah.

00:34:14
It's a balance. Right. Because sometimes I go to mentors and friends where I just need them to be like, oh, Brandon, that's so hard. I'm so sorry. And my best mentors are the ones that'll be like, yeah, I'm not giving you that today.

00:34:26
Wake up.

00:34:30
That tough love. Yeah. And, you know, again, who am I to assume I'm the person to transform anyone, right? They're the one doing the work. I'm just there as something to bounce off.

00:34:44
Well. And that's what. As coaches and mentors, that's what their role is meant to be. And I just want to. In case the audience didn't catch this, you mentioned several times with the one example of the client from India that you were working with for six months that you were like, I want you to graduate.

00:35:06
And I love that mentality because this type of work isn't meant to take years and years and years. And if you have a coach that's just dragging you along, you're just paying the rent for them. Right. Codependents. I mean, you see that all the time in the space, whether it's between therapists and clients.

00:35:24
Right. Counselors and clients, coaches and clients. It's like I. I don't need your money. And it doesn't.

00:35:33
It's. The money's dirty. If it's about me trying to achieve something out of this relationship, it's, it's, it's. My role is of service at the end of the day. And if you're not getting.

00:35:43
I mean, my clients sign up for six months. They pay twelve weeks at a time and they know we can stop. At twelve weeks, we can stop, but we sign up, we set the intention for six. Because at the end of the day, if it's not working, it's not working, it's not worth it. That's right.

00:36:03
That's right. At the end of the day. And so, yeah, it's, it's. This approach has been so much better than, say, eight years ago when I was starting out and rent was due and it was. It was.

00:36:15
It was a harder time having those conversations and really checking myself of what the deeper motivation was behind sitting in that seat as a coach. And. And now it's. It's just. It's like breathing.

00:36:26
It's. It's. It's wonderful how. How much more seamless it's become in my life. And it makes me better.

00:36:33
It makes me a better person. Love it, love it, love it, love it. I love everything you're doing. Is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience before we sign off? Yes.

00:36:47
So if you head to Brandoncliffe.com, you can see a free discovery call link. I'm not going to sell you on anything. I'm just there to have a chat. We can just have a chat. I currently have some emotional intelligence workshops coming up in the fall that are going to be done virtually.

00:37:05
So for those of you that want to get an objective metric on where you sit with your emotional intelligence, which we didn't really cover in great depth today, it's really powerful to be able to then identify which kind of tools and tactics and strategies you can implement in your life and your relationships to get better at being able to manage one's emotions. And maybe you're a reactive person. You want to be less reactive and more responsive. Yeah. It's going to be a fantastic workshop.

00:37:33
I'm inviting any and all to do that. So you can book a call and we can chat about that. And the Mankind podcast, which is actually the context in how we started talking. So our show has been gone for three years, and our mission is to break the molds of modern manhood depression, prove there's more than one way to be a man. And me and my host boys and Hodgson have been interviewing people way smarter than us, with PhD next to their name, that have studied manhood masculinity, boyhood psychology, filmmakers, a couple celebrities, athletes.

00:38:04
We've had some UFC fighters come on and they take off the mask and share from their hearts of what's actually going on in their world. So if you're a man out there, or, you know, a mandeh in your life out there who perhaps has kind of taken the path alone, they might be isolating, they might be making things harder than they need, and they want an opportunity or the gift of going second by listening to courageous conversations on taboo topics. The Mankind podcast has been that for many. I love it. Yeah, that's also a great place.

00:38:36
And I just say to anyone, skim the titles. You'll see that we don't play in the shallow end. We talk about racism, we talk about sexual abuse, we talk about overcoming challenges through divorce or conscious uncoupling. Also sexuality and sex and that stuff. Those conversations are always really fun because you just see me get so uncomfortable when, you know, when these experts on sex, like or polyamory or whatever, just start going deep and I'm like, whoa, I'm having to really step up in these conversations.

00:39:08
So again, that's our thing to give others the gift of going second. We'll have the difficult conversations first. Oh, I love it. Oh, my gosh. That's such incredible work.

00:39:16
So thank you so much for what you're doing. Everyone go to Brandon's website, Brandon Clift. check out his workshops he has coming up with emotional intelligence. I love it. And best of luck to you.

00:39:28
Just such a pleasure to see you again and enjoy your baby girl. Because let me tell you, before you know it, she'll be graduating college. Don't you dare say that. I'm trying to slow this whole process down because it's too special. Sandy, thank you so much.

00:39:44
This has been an absolute pleasure being able to share part of my story and the work that we're doing with the mankind project and my coaching work. So it's been an honor. Thank you. And I hope to connect with you again soon. Yeah, thank you.

00:39:55
And thank you everyone.

00:40:08
I hope you enjoyed today's conversation. And as for promised, I'd like to give you more details of what you can expect as a member of the happiness solved exclusive community. First, you'll have access to a treasure trove of extra podcast episodes. These episodes dive deeper into the topics we discuss, featuring additional expert interviews only found here. But that's not all.

00:40:30
As a member, you also get access to a series of mindset training sessions. These recordings are tailored to help you understand the how and why your mindset is the most important asset you have, empowering you to achieve your personal and professional goals. And for those of you looking to find a moment of peace in your busy lives, we've got something special exclusive guided meditations. These sessions are crafted to help you relax, refocus and recharge. Whether you're a meditation guru or just starting out, there's something here for everyone.

00:41:05
Becoming a member is more than just accessing extra content. It's about joining a community of like minded individuals, all on a journey to live life to its fullest and become the best possible version of you. So how can you join? It's simple. Go to happinesssolved dot supercast.com and sign up.

00:41:26
Don't miss out on this opportunity to deepen your journey with us. Again, that's happinesssolved dot supercast.com and it will also be in the show notes I am so grateful you are a part of our happiness solve family and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your continued support. Again, I am so grateful for you and I hope that you and your family are healthy and safe and that your lives are filled with peace, joy and happiness. Take care, everyone.