314. Uncovering the Power of Emotional Regulation with the Queen of Empathy with Karen Hall

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This is happiness solved with America's happiness coach, Sandee Sgarlata.

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Hello and thank you for joining us today. I'm so happy you're here. Happiness Solved is the place where we explore everything you need to become the best possible version of you. This is Sandee Sgarlata, and today I've got some exciting news for our dedicated listeners. We've just launched our exclusive members only portal.

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This is your ticket to a world of additional content designed to deepen your understanding and engagement with the happiness solved mission. To learn more about all of the exciting benefits, stay tuned until the end of the episode, where I will explain in greater detail. For those interested now, head over to Happinesssolved dot supercast.com. today is another amazing conversation, so let's get started.

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Karen Hall, the queen of empathy. I love that you have that there. So excited to have you on my show today. And for the audience, Karen Hall is just an absolute brilliant person, going to let her talk about all of her stuff. But Karen is one of the fellow podcasters on the Los Angeles Tribune podcast network, which I'm really just starting to talk about because we just launched a couple months ago, and it's just a really great platform.

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Go to los angelestribune.com podcast and you'll see all of the amazing podcasts that are part of this network. So, Karen, thank you so much for being here today. How are you doing? You look amazing, by the way. Thank you so much.

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I just love seeing your smile, Sandy. Whenever I see your picture, I always smile back at you. You make me happy when I see you. Aw. Thank you.

00:02:04
Thank you. So I want to hear all about your story, and I'm guessing it ties into the queen of empathy. Can you share with the audience? Like, who are you? I don't like to read bios anymore.

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I'm like, just tell me who you are. I like to hear from your story. Okay, well, so I'm not sure how far back you want to go, but. But my, my, my story starts, honestly with birth, because I was born two and a half months premature. I was.

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I went down to one pound 13oz shortly after birth, and the doctors told my parents, they were so worried. And the doctor said, you know, she's not going to survive. I mean, back in those days, they didn't have all this. I didn't want to say that. I didn't want to say back in those days, but I know we're kind of around the same age, so I was like.

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But I didn't want to say it. So I'm glad you did, because I was like, wow, that's pretty incredible, because the technology wasn't there, right? It wasn't there. And so then when I did survive, they said, well, she's going to be a vegetable. And miraculously, I'm not.

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And very far from it, let's add.

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But it was a miracle that I defied those odds. But I was alone in the incubator for two and a half months. And in those days, they didn't let the mother hold the baby or, you know, my mom couldn't touch me. She couldn't feed me. And so both of us were denied that bonding time.

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And. And I'm sure it was very terrifying, because now we know, you know, like, you've probably heard about the studies of the babies in orphanages. When they weren't held, but all their physical needs were met, they died. And so I'm just so grateful that I did live. But one of the things that I think came out of that is I have a very high need for connection in my life.

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I love to hug people. I love to stay connected. People feel like family to me. You feel like family to me. I just.

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I love people so much, and so. But the interesting thing is, I'm also an HSP, which is a highly sensitive person, and I'm an empath. And so I feel things very deeply. I feel joy very deeply. I feel sorrow real deeply.

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And then I sense energy from other people, so I pick up on their energy. I may not even be feeling it, but I can sense it when I walk into a room or even if I'm on the phone, even if I'm not even talking to the person, I can sense things, like the energy things, and that affects me. Learning empathy was a very interesting process for me because I had fears. I had some anxiety, you know, growing up. And my mom would try to help me overcome my fears, and she would say, well, she used to read me the story of the little engine that could.

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That was my bedtime story, and I love the little story, and I just could totally relate, you know, for the listeners who haven't heard it, there's a train that's bringing toys and dolls and good things to eat to the children on the other side of the mountain. But it breaks down, and it asks for help from the passenger engine, but no, the passenger engine's too busy. And they ask for the locomotive, but no, they're too important. And none of the other trains will help. But the little blue engine says, I'll help, and then chugs and chugs up the hill with all her might.

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Then she says, I think I can, and I think I can. I think I can. And it's very difficult, but she does it, and then she accomplishes the goal, and then she says, I thought I could. I thought I could. She chugs down the mountain, and she just feels so happy that she was able to help.

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And so whenever I faced a scary situation as a child, my mom would say, think of the little blue engine. And so that was my first lesson in mindset. I would say, I think I can. I think I can, and I do it. To this day, when I'm giving, you know, like, speaking at an event or something, and I feel a little intimidated or overwhelmed or scared, I say that to myself.

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So that helped me to learn to deal with my fears, to face them head on and to overcome them. And then I also. My mom also was working with me to help me because I got my feelings hurt. And she would say, you're so sensitive. And she didn't really understand it.

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It kind of was. It was worrisome to her. She thought, I have this. This little girl that just gets. You know, she just gets her feelings hurt so easily.

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And so she was trying to help me learn to look at things differently in that way as well. My dad and my mom are both sensitive. My dad's also an empath. I don't know that they are HSP's because I don't remember. We didn't really talk a lot about that.

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But anyway, I probably felt things stronger than both of them. I mean, I'll just guess that that might have been the case. And so when my mom would say that to me, though, I thought there was something wrong with me. I felt a lot of shame for being so sensitive. And so then when I got my feelings hurt, I felt bad because other people, you know, they could just snap out of it.

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You know, they were like, oh, yeah, that thing happened, but I'm over it. And I even remember when the. When the frozen came on and Elsa would sing let it go. Let it go, you know? And I thought, yeah, that's been my theme song my whole life, to learn to let it go.

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So what I realized was that even though I could feel things very strongly, sometimes, when I got my feelings hurt and my emotions were escalated, all of the tools that I had learned would fly out the window. I couldn't remember to have compassion for myself. So that was the first step in learning empathy, was learning to have empathy for myself. Wow. Yeah.

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I had to grab my notebook and write down it because you said so many things, and there's some days I'm really on. And I was like, I've already written five things down. And I was like, I'm going to forget these. It's all good. It's all good.

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I was like, I need to write this stuff down because I want to. Because there's certain things I want to circle back. First of all, let's just praise your mom. Like, really.

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Yeah. There's no instruction manual given to moms, as you know. Right, right. And we don't know how to handle things, but the fact that she was able to bring that back to the little train, that could. That's huge.

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And that. Yeah. And I imagine if she did imagine if she was just like, oh, stop it. Stop it. Right.

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And invalidated. Right. Yeah. You know, so kudos to your mom. Yeah.

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And my mom was always trying to be the best mother that she could be. My dad was always trying to be the best daddy could be. And it came through because my mom was always studying about parenting, and so. Yeah. So I am very grateful because it made such a huge difference in my life.

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Of course it did. Yeah. For sure. I mean, my mom was one of those who was, you know, she had five kids and started off very young age. She had three kids by the time she was 20.

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And then my biological fi. My biological father died when I was 18 months old, and she was only 26. So there's a lot of passes I've had to give my mom. Right. Because, you know, she was, you know, talk about not having an instruction manual, but she was one of those to be like, oh, just don't worry about it.

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Just. And that was her way of dealing it and what it did today. And I certainly don't blame her for it. But just to bring it back to your mom, like, what it did for me was that it just invalidated my feelings, like they didn't matter, and that wasn't her intent. But it's taken me many years to validate my feelings that they do matter.

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Oh, yes. Because we're so impressionable as children. Yes. And similarly, I felt shame for feeling so sensitive. So my mom didn't mean to invalidate my sensitivity either.

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Right. But I. But I had. I had to learn that same thing for myself, to validate my own feelings, too. So.

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Yeah, it's a process. I think we all go through that to one level or another, you know? Yeah. I mean, even though, you know, I got certified as a life coach in 2004, so my son was four years old and so he was raised by a life coach, quote, but we're still dealing with stuff because he doesn't want to listen to me. Right.

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Even though, you know, I find myself coaching my dog. I was doing it the other night with my ten pound Yorkie poo, and it was just the two of us alone. And then I started cracking up because he gets upset with me. He's on my. He's sitting in my lap.

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I put my phone down and he, err, he growls and he jumps off my lap. And I go, dude, you know, life is too short to get so upset over something so little. And I said, and you're only, you know, your life is really short, right? You're four. Like, hopefully you'll have another ten years with us.

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I'm like, you can't get so upset. I just started cracking up because I. Just started, like, that is hysterical that you're coaching your dog. But we do it so naturally. But it's true.

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I'm like, why are you so upset? Like, look at your life. You have such a good life. Yes. Anyway, I digress.

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I digress. But, yeah, so kudos to your mom. I mean, that's really, really amazing. Let's stick on the empathy part because I want to dive into that a little bit and then I want to get back to HSP. So we'll table that for a minute.

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So empathy. I never knew that that was me. Like, I never knew that I was empathic until probably late twenties. And it makes sense. I just thought I was a drama queen.

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Right. Because when you're empathic and you're feeling everybody else's feelings, it's very easy. If you're not aware of what's going on, it's very easy to kind of blow things up or you're talking with somebody and they're upset about something and then that stirs, triggers something in you. Yes. Because you're taking on their emotions, right?

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Yeah. So if there's anybody out there listening, like, because you are the queen of empathy. So I'm going to pose this question back to you. What do you do when, like, how do you navigate that? Because sometimes it can be hard and sometimes we don't even always recognize, like, oh, I think I'm taking on somebody else's feelings right now.

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Is this my feelings or am I feeling what they're feeling or. Right. Like, sometimes it's hard to distinguish. Oh, it's very hard to distinguish because it feels like it's your own. And sometimes you don't even know where it came from.

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And sometimes I don't even know that that person is dealing with something. I just, the energy is just almost like, it's like my osmosis almost, you know, is how it happened. So what I had to learn through many years was how to emotionally regulate my nervous system, because I would start to get escalated in my emotions. And then I, like I said, I would forget everything, and I would forget to be kind to myself, and I would forget to talk nicely to myself. And, and even learning what I was saying in my mind, I didn't even know I was talking up there for, you know, all the years growing up, I didn't know that my thoughts were actually verbalizing things.

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And so I just thought a thought was like, go and get, you know, something at the grocery store because I'm hungry. I don't know. I didn't, I didn't think I was talking to myself about myself until somebody that one of my best friend was in sales and personal development, and she said, well, listen to your self talk. And I'm like, what self talk? And she goes, just be quiet.

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Listen to what you say. And I'm like, I don't think I say anything. She goes, just listen. And I was chattering all day long. And so then I, then I paid attention.

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So I became aware first, and then I paid attention to how I felt when I was saying those things, and then I learned to replace that. So self talk is the first way that I started, because I'd already been starting to say, I think I can. I think I can. So I understood that concept. But then learning to tap into somatically what was going on within me and to learn breath work and how to calm my vagus nerve and different techniques.

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And so if you want me to, I can talk about that. But so I learned a whole, and I keep learning things about how to help myself be present in the moment, because usually what happens when I am emotionally dysregulated is I go to the primitive part of my brain, into my amygdala hijack. I am transported back in time in some way to something. Like you said, it triggered something within me. It's usually in my past.

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And all of a sudden, I'm not present anymore. And I have to remind myself where I'm at and what's going on right now, because I start to feel unsafe. And so then I have to first calm myself physically, and then as I start to de escalate, I can tap into my memory, and then I can use the tools to help myself with my mindset. Brilliant stuff. So when it triggers something, because this is a lot of the work that I've been doing lately with my coach, when it triggers something, what we're talking about is it's triggering some sort of childhood trauma.

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Correct. Right. And that childhood trauma, it's either my coach, she said this so many times, and I forget them, but there's, like, multiple things that it can trigger and safe. And security is one of them. Right.

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Right. So what are some of the other things it can trigger? So I can. When things like that happen? Yeah, if you could dive into it, that would be great.

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Yeah. So safety for me is one of the biggest ones. I don't feel safe. Express myself. I don't feel safe to be heard.

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I don't feel safe that I value. I don't. Sometimes I don't even feel loved, you know? And so that is, like, it's such a horrible feeling to feel unloved. But I.

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But I go there, you know, my brain defaults all the way back to there. And the one that I think I default to, I don't know if it's because of what I went through, but I feel very alone. And that is scary for me, to feel very alone, even though I don't mind being alone consciously, subconsciously, it's scary to me. And I realize that I feel very vulnerable, and I start to feel more fear, you know, like, oh, no, what if this happens? Or what if nobody comes and visits because I need connection so bad, you know, that I start to.

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I can start to feel a lot of fear about being alone. And then the other one that I go to is shame. And that one is so painful. So, so painful. Because if I feel shame about who I am and about my personality, that's the worst shame possible, because that's kind of, like, innate.

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And. And, like, my sensitivity. I I. That's just part of my nature. And so when I feel shame about being sensitive, I have to work so hard to.

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To flip that and say, okay, maybe there are some disadvantages at that moment of being sensitive. Yes, I got my feelings hurt, and I had to take a moment. I had to pull back for a moment, pause and regroup and use my tools. But that's okay, because I also am sensitive to other people, and I can help other people because I pick up on things for them. So there's blessings.

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It has pros and cons to both sides. And so putting it in perspective while I'm emotionally regulating myself is how I move out of that. And that helps me tremendously, because as I was growing up, one of the messages my dad told me, but he never used the word sensitive, but he said, you are so in tune with things. Like, he would watch me with children when I was babysitting in our house or something, and he would tell me about how I would pick up on things and he would point it out when it would happen to me. But I didn't know that he was talking about being sensitive, so I didn't attach that.

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That was a good thing. I just heard I was too sensitive as a bad thing. So later, it wasn't until after I was married and I was feeling the shame, and I was trying to deal with being triggered with that shame. All of a sudden, I heard my dad's words to me, and I was like. He was trying to tell me that it's a good thing that I have this ability.

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And I. And I saw myself so differently. I was like, oh. And I released a lot of shame. And every time I default to the shame, and I remember that message, that core message, I get emotional just talking about it, because it releases that shame.

00:19:29
And it's like a gift. It's just such a gift. Oh, my gosh, Karen. Now, is this because you said HSP? What does that stand for again?

00:19:39
That's a highly sensitive person. Highly sensitive person. And so can you dive into that a little bit? I don't. I know I've heard it, but I don't know that I quite understand it.

00:19:51
Yes. What does that entail? Yes. So it was a term that came up. Doctor Karen was she, I think she herself was a highly sensitive person, and she and her husband did a lot of research.

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She's a psychiatrist. And so now what they have found is that it's not just a learned behavior or something like that. It is actually a physiological trait. And what happens is that the brain fires differently. So, for example, highly sensitive people take in so much information, and they oftentimes pause before they act because they're trying to assimilate all this myriad of information and they're trying to make sense of it.

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So sometimes people think highly sensitive people are slow or that they're deliberate or that they're shy. Sometimes they're mistaken because they kind of pause and step back for a minute, but they're feeling all of that so much as well as interpreting all of that. But what happens is that they also store those facts. And so when they come up with another situation later in life, that's similar. Their brain.

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My husband calls it a Rolodex. He's like, oh, there she goes with her Rolodex. Your people probably don't even know what a Rolodex is, but the bio, it's. Kind of like the paper version of your context on your phone. That's what a Rolodex is in alphabetical order.

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And my context, I have little notes, you know, about the people. And so when I would, I was going back through all my different things to pick up on the notes to make sense of this new situation, and it helped me to make a good decision, because I could remember from the past. So they find that highly sensitive people, that this trait is not just even in people, it's in animals. They have found it in all kinds of creatures in the world, which I think is absolutely fascinating. Like in.

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I think it was a grasshopper. They found it, but they found that the way that their brain lights up in decision making processes was very similar. And I was like, oh, my goodness. It's not just an emotional thing. It's a physiological thing that I feel these things very deeply.

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So I guess my ten pound yorkie poo is an HSP. HSD, highly sensitive dog. Yes. And he probably loves connection with you. Oh, yeah.

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Not to make light of it, but hey. Okay, so this all kind of plays into your empathy as well. Being so highly sensitive is kind of like putting another bunch of layers on top of being empathic. It is. It's very interesting, because not every HSP is also an empath.

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So I got this double dose, the. Double, double whammy there, right? Wow. Because I know I'm definitely empathic. And then there's definitely times when you were talking, I was like, well, I'm not highly sensitive, but I'm like, kinda.

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I'm kind of sensitive, you know? But. But just a different degree. Right. Because there's probably a spectrum, right?

00:23:04
Just like anything else. Yeah, right, right. There's different degrees. You know, there is, there's that with so many different things in life situations, there's different. Different levels of the spectrum.

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So you talked a lot about emotionally regulating. Can you give some examples of how you emotionally. I mean, you mentioned a couple very briefly, but can you expand on that a little bit for the audience? Because I think, you know, regulating your emotions, whether you're empathic, HSP, or anything, we all have moments where we're triggered, period. Absolutely.

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Absolutely. Or you're just really stressed out and you need to bring it down a few notches. So what can people, what are some of the things that you do that you can share, that people can do right now to help them to, you know, regulate their emotions? Right. So, usually what happens is when I'm having an interaction with somebody and something happens in the interaction, and like I said, it brings up something within me.

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And so maybe the person yells. I'm not a yeller, and so maybe they yell when they yell, because there's a physical reaction within me. It's like an electrical kind of goes through me. And so, first of all, that startles me, and it. And it stuns me.

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I probably feel like I have been electrocuted once on accident, and it wasn't massive, but I was electrocuted. And I, you know, I flew back, and I thought that that is what it reminds me of. So I first get stunned. This is my process. Everybody else probably has a different way of doing it, but this is my process.

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I get stunned, and I'm like, whoa, what just happened? And so I'm immediately curious about the thing because I don't know why the person did that. I don't know why they acted that way or why they had that reaction. Sometimes it's just like I didn't even have anything to do with it. You know, they just come in, and they're just mad.

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And then so my curiosity is. Is activated, and then when so say, it continues, and. And then it's directed at me, then I start to say, okay, you know, did I do something? No, I just was. I just.

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They just came into my. My circle here, so I know I didn't have anything to do with it at that moment. But then I start to feel these feelings within my body, and I have to. I have to breathe. That's the first thing I have to do, is I have to take deep breaths because I start to breathe real shallow.

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My heart starts pounding. I start to sweat. I. Sometimes the fear is so great that I want to run. I mean, I'm like, get me out of here.

00:25:41
I don't want to, like, start hyperventilating or anything. Yeah, it kind of feels like. Kind of like that. Okay. Yeah, it's very shallow type of breathing, and so I have to breathe in deep, and I.

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Because I start to recognize that I'm doing that. I have to. And I talk faster. When I get excited, I talk faster. And so I have to calm myself, and I.

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And when I'm doing that, just that breathing, I've learned that that's not quite enough because people used to say, well, breathe in. Count to ten. Breathe out. That didn't work enough for me. So then I learned I have to breathe in, hold it, and then exhale.

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And I have to exhale deeply and loudly. And I didn't know why this worked until someone explained to me that I'm massaging my vagus nerve. And so when we are naturally relaxed, like your dog or a baby, or even yourself, when you're calm and you're relaxed, you breathe out these big, deep sighs. Or when, like, right before you go to sleep, even when people die, they breathe out this big, heavy sigh. So the sigh with the sound and the exertion of that breath coming out massages the vagus nerve.

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And so you mimic what you do naturally. So it tells your brain, oh, I must be safe. I'm doing physiologically what I do when I'm relaxing. And then the massage of the vagus nerves helps it to relax the, you know, your body at another level. So that's the first thing that I do, and that helps.

00:27:14
So before you move on, what is the vagus nerve? Is that an actual nerve that controls something? Yes. Yes. So the vagus nerve is connected to the brain.

00:27:25
It goes down to the gut. It's the largest nerve, and it controls autonomic processes. And there it's connected to almost everything. And so when they talk about, like, the gut is another brain, because it's connected, you know, emotionally. There's a lot of reasons why they say that, but there, you mentioned the.

00:27:44
Vegas brain earlier, and I was like, oh, yeah, we were just in Vegas.

00:27:53
It's v a g U S. Wow. I'm like, wow, she still has her Vegas brain. Geez, it's been, like a month, Karen. Come on.

00:28:03
And it's so funny. Oh, my goodness. It's fascinating to learn about this Vegas nerve. I just. I have been obsessed.

00:28:10
Okay, so when you said it again, I'm like, okay, let's talk about. What is that? Thank you. Thank you. Because that's something that.

00:28:17
Yeah, a lot of people probably thought of Las Vegas. Yeah. Because we were just in Vegas, you know, we were together. Yes, we were. Yes, we were.

00:28:27
So that's another interesting thing. Yeah, I was gonna say, the interesting thing about the vagus nerve is that they've done studies. And another thing that massages the vagus nerve is singing heartily, singing out loud and using your voice in that way. And so, like, you know, in the scriptures, it talks about how. How singing, you know, makes your heart marry.

00:28:50
And I thought, oh, my goodness, there. And I don't know about you. But when I sing, especially if I'm singing a happy song, it does change my. Yeah. And so that's another simple thing that.

00:29:01
That can help. Love it. Oh, my gosh, I love it. This has been so amazing. One of the other things I wrote down was getting your feelings hurt.

00:29:14
Yes. Because that's still something to this day. And I thought, you know, my lord, I'm pushing 60 at this point. Like, when are my feelings going to stop being hurt? And I think it's just.

00:29:28
I think it's part of being empathic, but it's also part of just being a woman, too. I think that it's just something that women, and there are plenty of men, too, that are in touch with their feminine side, right? Yeah. But I think that most women, most, and I say that broadly, because not everybody, we're more in touch with our feminine energy than we are a masculine energy. And when you're really in touch with that feminine energy, sometimes you can get a little, you know, your feelings can be hurt.

00:29:58
And it's the masculine energy that why most men are just like, you know, like the men. The way men talk to each other. I was like, I would never say that to my girlfriend. If I said that to my girlfriend, she would never speak to me again. Exactly.

00:30:14
Just joke. Right? And so for you, like, when your feelings do get hurt, because it's a real thing, you know? And sometimes women can be nasty to one another, right? Like.

00:30:28
Like, how do you handle that, being so, so sensitive and empathic, you know, how do you handle that when you're in a situation and your feelings get hurt? Sandy, thank you for asking that question, because that has been the journey of my lifetime. And this is the thing, that. Same thing. Same, same thing.

00:30:46
No wonder I love you. But, yes, I have worked on this so much. And so one of the things that I realized was that there was fear within me. Something came up, and there was fear. I felt that disconnection.

00:31:01
All of a sudden, we weren't aligned. There was some disconnect there, and that scared me, and I didn't know exactly. Like I said, I was always surprised, like, what's happening? Why is this happening? And when I got my feelings hurt, not only did I forget all my tools, because my emotions are so escalated, I leave the prefrontal cortex, where I have my values, my logic, my reasoning.

00:31:26
That's where empathy resides. That's where our ability to be compassionate resides. For years, I thought I was a self coach, and I can't even remember to be empathetic. I couldn't remember to be empathetic to myself, but I also couldn't remember to be empathetic to the other person. So this was something that was very powerful for me, because when I could emotionally regulate myself and I could get back to my prefrontal cortex, then I could say, okay, who is that person that I'm interacting with?

00:31:57
And one of my mantras is, I am a being of love, and so are you. And so if you and I are having a problem between each other, even just at one little moment, and I remember, oh, you're a being of love. And so something's happening within you that is blocking your love at this moment. And something, and if I'm acting on loving, something is blocking my love. And so what is blocked?

00:32:22
So when I'm curious with empathy toward you, I start to think of how you feel. What are you going through? What? I use my imagination because sometimes somebody isn't even able to tell me what's going on. Sometimes you might be so dysregulated yourself that you threaten.

00:32:37
So I use touch a lot. Sometimes I just pat someone on the arm, you know, and I am warmth. I convey warmth. I first let them know I care. I let them know I'm curious.

00:32:49
And then the amazing thing is that my first inclination is to tell them what hurt my feelings. I want to tell you what you did and why I feel upset. That's what they did. We all want to do that, right? Yes.

00:33:02
That's the natural human tendency. And I remember when I read Stephen Arcovey and he said that our goal is first to seek to understand and then to be understood. And this was his motto for all of his corporate training, to help businesses be successful. And when I read that, I, whoa, whoa, whoa. Wait a minute.

00:33:22
What do you mean? I need to seek to understand them first? They're the one that was rude. First I need to help them understand why they were rude to me and why that hurt my feelings. But I tested it out.

00:33:31
I thought, okay, I'm just going to see. Maybe he knows more about this than I did. Because I was young, I was in my twenties, and I thought, maybe there's some value there. So I did. Oh, my goodness.

00:33:42
The power that happened was unbelievable. So first I have to emotionally regulate so that I can remember to do it, then to actually have the desire to do it, because I have to come from a place of love to want to understand you. And then when I understand you and I really dig and say, help me understand what's going on, within you. And I love you enough. And you feel that love from me.

00:34:05
Your defenses drop. And as your defenses drop, then you start to. We co regulate. You regulate as I regulate. And then you feel my love, and you return love to me.

00:34:17
And what is so magical is that then you want to know how I feel. And so sometimes it's resolved enough. I see the misunderstanding as I understand where you're coming from. I'm like, oh, no wonder they felt that way. Then I drop.

00:34:32
I drop my offense. My hurt just kind of magically vanishes. Sometimes I don't. Sometimes I don't have to say anything about me because it's like, it's a mute point. Because now I understand that you just didn't understand, and I understand either.

00:34:44
And then I come back to love between us, and. And the connection is restored and we're aligned again. I call that the empathy advantage, because now this. This mysterious thing of how to get back together and how to be connected again has been resolved. And so to me, it's like magic, but it's.

00:35:04
But it. What it really is, it's miraculous to me. I feel like it takes divine help to remember anything in my case, and then to have the desire to think about you versus myself in that moment and then to act. It takes courage to act because when somebody's upset, sometimes I don't want to interact with them. Yeah, of course.

00:35:26
And don't you find that most, most all disagreements or situations are generally caused from some sort of lack of communication? Absolutely. It's always a misunderstanding if you revisit misunderstanding. Yeah. If you really knew my heart, you would.

00:35:44
You would say, oh, that makes sense. And that's what empathy is. It's making sense out of where you're coming from. Brene Brown says it so well. It's not just walking in another person's shoes.

00:35:54
It's believing their story and letting them know they're not alone. And if. If you see me and get me and believe the way I'm thinking, you don't have to agree with me, but you say, oh, I see why she's thinking that way. Then we're connected and we're. And the love just flows.

00:36:12
And Marianne Williamson says it really well. She says you can either have grievance or you can have a miracle. And she says, are you willing to look at it differently? And that's what I do in those moments, and that's one of them. Another mantra that I say when I'm trying to make sense.

00:36:27
Are you willing to look at this differently? Because I could say real clearly you did something wrong and you were offensive or whatever, but if I say, let's try and look at that differently, I see it so differently that I see you differently. I see me differently. And then the miracle happens. And that's.

00:36:46
The miracle is the love is received. Well, yeah. And you have to regulate your emotions before you can get to that place because it's so hard to see things a different way when you're emotionally involved, when you're charged up. It's not going to happen. It doesn't happen.

00:37:04
It does not happen. That's why you. Because I know me. I'm as stubborn as can be, and when I'm emotionally charged, I will be the most stubborn person. And no, no, no, you are wrong.

00:37:14
I am right, blah, blah. But then when you calm down, you're like, oh, wait a second. And then you're like, your sanity's restored. Right? Because in those moments when you're emotionally charged, you're not thinking clearly.

00:37:28
No, you're not. You're not thinking clearly at all. Yeah. And you're often thinking like you would in the past, and you're as if it is currently. As if the past is currently happening to you.

00:37:41
So it's not rational. It's not rational at all, but let's call it for what it is. Right. Because you've heard me talk on all the different platforms that we're on together, and I was like, there's consciousness and there's ego. And when you break down consciousness, what is that?

00:37:58
It's love. Right? It's love. And what is ego? Fear.

00:38:03
Ego is fear. And that's really it. That's it. It's either fear or love. And we're always reacting either from fear or from love.

00:38:13
And 99.9% of the time, we are going to default to fear. Absolutely. And what I recently learned, and this will bring it back full circle because you were talking about feeling safe and secure. What I've learned about myself recently is that there's been several different things in my life that I've known that I want to change. And what I realized is that it was because I wasn't feeling safe and secure.

00:38:49
And that's fear. Yeah. And now. Now that it's in my awareness, I'm able to be like, okay, I'm not feeling safe and secure, and I'm looking outside of myself to get that feeling of security and to be safe. And the problem that we all face as humans is you're not going to find any of it out there it all comes from within.

00:39:18
And, yeah, I know this. I've been walking this talk for 35 years, but you start peeling it away and peeling it away. And I told you I was on one of our mutual friends podcast yesterday. We were talking. We had the same conversation.

00:39:30
And I'm like, when you start peeling the layers away and you start getting down into some real nitty gritty stuff, you're like, oh, why don't I remember that? Right? And it's just because, who knows, right? Because you have to regulate it. Yeah.

00:39:46
You got to peel it away. And then you realize, wow, I've been searching outside of myself, and I didn't even realize it because it's not a big deal in my life. It's just kind of a little thorn in my side that I'd like to pull out and remove and get rid of. Yeah. You know, because of the self awareness that.

00:40:03
And it's like, wow. Oh, my. And then you're like, I can't believe I was just really like, I've lived like this for this long. And you start, like, you have to be gentle with yourself. You do.

00:40:15
And see that I have been so judgmental of myself, especially as a coach, because I held myself to this higher standard that as a coach, I should be able to remember those when I was emotionally dysregulated and I had to have a coach. Tell me, Karen, nobody can remember when they're emotionally dysregulated. And it was like, brand new news to me. But isn't that funny how, like, we're both coaches and we hold ourselves to these high standards that I would never expect any of my clients to hold themselves to that, and yet we do it to ourselves. And so, for the listeners, we're all human.

00:40:53
This is part of our journey of self discovery, and we're always going to be learning and growing. And I know I had a conversation with my coach recently, and it's funny because she's the only coach I've ever had who's pissed me off.

00:41:09
And sometimes they have to say those things that are true, but it's hard to. And I'm like, but I love her to the moon and beyond. And the thing is, is it's like, it's okay. You know, it's okay. And sometimes painful things are so true that.

00:41:29
That it does hurt to be brought to the consciousness of that. But that's how we make. That's how we make progress is becoming aware. And, you know, it hurts sometimes. I'm like, am I not done yet?

00:41:41
When am I going to be done? I just want to be done. I want to be done. I don't want to peel the layers like I'm having, like a little temper tantrum. I don't want to keep peeling the layers away.

00:41:50
I want to be done. When is this? You know, guess what? Newsflash. You're never going to be done because I'm human.

00:41:59
I know. And what surprises me is, first of all, that it's not one and done. I learn it. I apply it. Oh, good, I got it now.

00:42:06
No, then I default to the thing and I have to relearn it again. And then I learn it on deeper levels, and then I learn it different situations, you know, now I, you know, my kids are all grown and married and I have grandkids now. I'm learning these things in interactions with married adult children and with in laws. And I didn't have children, whatever you call that. My children weren't married for years, so I didn't have that.

00:42:32
So situations change. I change, my situation changes. So, yes, we learn it again and again in different environments. Even it just shows up differently every time. Right?

00:42:47
But the message is always the same. And this is another one of my mantras. What would love? Do you know what would love in this situation? And if I'm not being loving, okay, what can I do about that fear?

00:43:01
How can I address that fear? I love it. I love it. I've been reading and I've been taking a long time because I don't read a whole lot anymore, but there's been certain books that I'm drawn to, and I'm reading one right now by Gabby Bernstein called the universe has your background, and I love it in there. And she talks about fear and love, and she has this mantra where she says, thank you, universe, or you could replace it with God, Buddha, Jesus, Allah, whoever you want.

00:43:32
But she says, thank you, universe, for guiding me to perceive this fear through the teacher of love, because love is always going to be the teacher. And sometimes I get it, and sometimes I'm like, okay, I don't see, see, I don't see it, but I just keep, you keep kind of preying on it and you're like, oh, okay, yeah, now I get it, right? Because when you've been thinking one way for so many years, right, it's not going to go away overnight. And it takes time and, and to be gentle with yourself and give yourself. Grace, give ourselves grace.

00:44:10
And just like we give other people grace and we're compassionate for other people to be compassionate for ourselves. And then I go the other layer when my feelings are hurt, to give compassion to the other person, too, and to myself, to both of us in that situation. I remember another thing that Marianne Williamson said was that relationships are assignments and that we are put together. There's reasons why we're together with people, and sometimes they aren't. Everything's not all roses and rainbows.

00:44:43
Sometimes there are difficulties, but it's opportunities to learn to rub off some of those rough spots and address some of those fears and wounds in both of us. And so, as we strive to see ourselves as holy beings and as beings of love, and I like to say, as God sees us, then, then that changes our interactions. I love it. Oh my God, this has been such an amazing conversation, and we could go on for, we've already gone way over my normal time. But that's okay because it's been great.

00:45:16
You have now taken on a big new project. Can we talk about it? Sure, if you have time, I mean. Yeah. Well, I just want to mention it because I know most of my listeners are women, and it's great for the men out there.

00:45:30
Tell your wives, your significant others, your daughters, your sisters, your aunts, whatever. But can you talk about your big project that you're now involved in with the Los Angeles Tribune? Yes. Thank you for asking. So, I am the managing director of the Los Angeles Tribune Women's Journal, which is launching June 1.

00:45:50
And our mission is very similar to the Los Angeles Tribune, to highlight women that are making a difference in the world. We want to inspire and uplift women so many times on personal development stages. There are men on the stages. Even in the podcast world, as you know, there aren't as many women podcasters as tremendously skewed as male podcasters. So this gives women a chance to be highlighted for the difference that they're making in the world.

00:46:16
And some people think, oh, well, I'm not, you know, Miss CEO of the biggest company in the world, but you're making a difference in your world, however it is. It could be as a mother, it could be as a wife or, you know, a caretaker, any kind. There's all different ways that we are making a difference, and so we want to show those stories, and that's, that's what we're seeking as women that want to be a part of that. Oh, I love it. I love it.

00:46:40
That's so incredible. And congratulations. It's such a huge mission, and I love everything, and I'm so excited to be along in this journey with you. But we want to highlight you. I just have to say that.

00:46:56
And I also want to say it feels like my podcast, podcast is the hero within. And I do inspiring stories like you do. And so it feels like just trans, you know, just transferring that same thing now into the women's journal to highlight and share stories. So, yeah, absolutely. I'm doing the same thing with my book series, and because it's, again, it's highlighting different stories about people and just on a different platform.

00:47:26
Right. And if I. If I hear your story, which I can't wait to hear your story, you helped me to be better. You helped me to raise my consciousness. And so thank you for what you're doing to bring other people's stories to life, too.

00:47:42
And thank you for honoring me by wanting to hear my story. Aw. Well, I'm so thrilled because we had, we saw each other in Vegas, and there was a lot going on and didn't have a whole lot of time. But I know we're going to be seeing each other at many future events, so we'll have plenty of time to catch up. But this has been really great, Karen, and just really thrilled for everything that you do, for how you show up.

00:48:08
I mean, folks, this woman is just such a bright light in the world. And if you're just listening to this, go to my YouTube channel and check it out on the video because, like, my cheeks hurt just from, like, having it because you. You just, like, you want to smile around you, right? And it's like, my cheeks are hurting right now because I've just done nothing but smile this whole time. And you're just amazing.

00:48:31
And I'm just so grateful and honored to. To be a part of this journey with you and that we're doing this together, you know, as podcasters, as women, as empaths, apparently. Well, you're. You're a mentor to me and I admire you and I thank you and I. And I appreciate your love.

00:48:49
You, you exude so much love. And so thank for the love that you give to me. Oh, thank you. And thank you, everyone, for listening today. Take care, everyone.

00:49:11
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00:49:32
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00:50:28
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