305. Initiate Movement: How Taking Imperfect Action Builds Confident Leaders with Michael Lopez

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This is happiness solved with America's happiness coach, Sandee Sgarlata.

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Hello and thank you for joining us today. I'm so happy you're here. Happiness solved is the place where we explore everything you need to become the best possible version of you. This is Sandee Sgarlata. And today I've got some exciting news for our dedicated listeners.

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We've just launched our exclusive members only portal. This is your ticket to a world of additional content designed to deepen your understanding and engagement with the happiness solved mission. To learn more about all of the exciting benefits, stay tuned until the end of the episode where I will explain in greater detail. For those interested now, head over to happinesssolved dot supercast.com. Today is another amazing conversation, so let's get started.

00:01:10
Michael Lopez, such a pleasure to be seeing you again. I know we've had a Zoom call before in the past. So happy to have you here on the show today. How's it going? Thank you.

00:01:20
It's wonderful to be here. It's going great. It's April Fool's day, I guess I just realized. So hopefully, you know, maybe we'll get a joke or two in, but it is wonderful to see you again and excited to finally catch up and get. A chance to chat more.

00:01:34
Yeah. Yeah. So for the audience, Michael is a coach, but I love on your bio that you put that you use your experience in and passion for the science and practice of behavior change to design innovative change strategies, and that's just incredible. But I love you have such a diverse background and leadership style that's a blend of business, civil service, military, and athletic experience. I mean, that's really the full gamut of what a lot of people in my neck of the woods are.

00:02:14
Right. Since I'm in the DC metro area, which you were in in this area at one point. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got to where you are today. Well, it's really been an interesting run. I guess so.

00:02:30
You know, I spent most of my. Career, well, when I was in high school, I was sort of an athlete. I was an athlete, and I went to a little school called Occidental College. I got a chance to play college football, which was just a wonderful experience and really the beginning of, I think, my growth as a leader. I played quarterback, which is a very demanding, special position.

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And my teammates, through that experience in terms of learning and understanding how to be a good teammate, how to be a good leader, how to work through adversity, how to be part of a larger organization, learning from coaches, my teammates, my former teammates, they're like my brothers. My coaches were like fathers to me. Every good thing I've learned about being a leader teammate started there, and then I graduated. I spent five years working for the Defense intelligence Agency, which is all I ever wanted to do when I was younger was grow up to be a spy, which I thought would be pretty cool. I was not a spy, but I got to work in the intelligence community.

00:03:34
And the military, I think, is just such a wonderful organization for these same concepts. Right? Leadership, teamwork development, resilience, grit, grind, performance. Understanding the power of collective performance, particularly. And it turns out I was not a very good government employee for different reasons.

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And so I went from there and got an MBA at George Mason. We were just talking about that and started my career in consulting. And, you know what's great about consulting is you get so many different experiences and looking at different organizations and different leaders and both within your own company and the clients that you serve. And it's just been this path that sort of led me to. We'll talk more about it.

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But to this place where I realized all the things I learned that made me great in the sports world and as a leader and as a teammate, I was applying to clients, and as a leader with teams, I was parenting my kids with the same concepts and. Realized the best place to do that. Was on my own. And so just about six months ago, I launched my own company in a way that I could focus on the kind of problems that I solve, the clients that want to work with someone who's got my background and my approach. And it's just been a great.

00:04:56
It's just been a great journey so far. Well, and for the audience.

00:05:03
You'Re kind of undermining what you did. But you were a managing director both. At Booze Allen Hamilton and KPMG. I mean, those are some of the. Largest consulting companies in the world.

00:05:17
Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting. I joined KPMG during the pandemic. I was actually at Ey before that.

00:05:24
So I spent 13 years at Booz Allen, which is a wonderful company, of course, very big in the DC area, given their role in the government. And I actually say my LinkedIn, I changed. Most people write their LinkedIn, and it's kind of a summary of what they did at those companies. I actually changed it to write down about what I learned at those companies. And I will say that Booz Allen was wonderful.

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Many things that I still practice today about organizational culture and particularly the joint accountability of a collective culture where joint incentives are really important, I'll never forget. I remember someone telling me that, particularly. At booze, was, if we're in a partnership model and you've got a number of leaders that are all sharing in the performance of the firm, if you sold a million dollars as a consultant on a project, and you did it. With three other people, and I sold. A million dollars, but I did it.

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By myself, yours mattered more, right. Because it was this idea that, how are you bringing others into the experience? How are you teaching and leveraging the power of the firm and coaching and guiding? And that just became such a central piece of my approach. And so I just give a lot of credit to Boo's great, great place.

00:06:48
You know, I moved on from there because I decided that I needed a different experience. I turned 40, and I was like, hey, let's try something else. And that sort of started a path. Of a couple different jobs for me that I realized led me to this place. So every place I've gone, I've just been really grateful for the experiences, the learning, how it's added to my point of view.

00:07:10
And so now here we are, and I bring all that to bear and. The clients I work with every day. Nice. So what were some of the biggest things that you learned that you can share with the audience that can help an upcoming leader or somebody who's in. Leadership that wants to be a better leader?

00:07:28
What are some of the things that you learned that could, that people can. Apply to their life, to their business right now? Yeah. I think the first one for me has always been to lead by example. I think leadership is much like parenting.

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I think in the sense that your children are wonderful observers. They're not always the best interpreters. Right. You mimic and watch the leaders around you and the things that work for them and the things that you want to adopt. And so for me, as a leader, I just think it's so important to sort of live the principles that I try to coach in others and lead by example.

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And so we've all heard it, right? A leader that is sort of do as I say, not as I do. My wife and I were driving back from celebrating Easter with our families last night, and she was talking about a leader that she's been working with. And she said, you know, at the. End of every call, there's this really.

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Awkward moment where the leader tries to sort of demonstrate thanks and empathy, and they're saying all the right words, but it just, there's an emotional disconnect between what they're saying, and how it lands. Right? So leading by example and leading authentically, I think we hear that phrase a. Lot, but it's hard to fake it. People see if you're not being genuine.

00:08:51
Right. People understand when you're only halfway in, right. And so I tell my kids all. The time, actually, and in people I work with, I'll never ask you to do something that I haven't done or am not willing to do myself, right. Because I think it's just such a disingenuous place to operate from.

00:09:13
I mean, I think that's the first thing. And on that piece of authenticity, I mean, I think your style has to come through. You know, I'm a bit of a troublemaker. I'm a bit of a non conformist. I challenge.

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I've done it since I was a kid. Right. I ask hard questions, but I ask those of myself, right. I'm willing to challenge my own beliefs. I'm willing to be wrong.

00:09:36
I'm willing to say, I don't know. Right? And I think it's important as a leader when you do that, because it lets other people know that you're just. A human being, too. And I think that would be the third thing I would say for people who want to be leaders, is admit when you don't understand something because it gives the people around you the freedom to be honest with themselves, that, hey, I'm learning.

00:10:00
And if you're never not learning, that's a bad thing. You should be learning up until the day they close the casket, every day should be a journey of learning something new. You know, for me, that's just a big piece of this idea that I am a person. I make mistakes. I learn, I get it wrong, but.

00:10:21
I'm always going to get up and try again. And so for me, those are just. The three big principles that I try to operate with. Oh, I love it. You said so many amazing things there.

00:10:30
Let's go back to authenticity. Yeah, because you're right. If you're not walking the talk, people. It'S going to come through. People are going to know.

00:10:42
Right. If you're not fully living and practicing. What you preach, so to speak. And I hadn't heard that saying, do. As I do, not as I say.

00:10:52
I hadn't heard that in a very long time. But I remember that. I remember that very well. But here's the thing. If you are not able to admit to when you're wrong or when you're not able to fully live in as your authentic self, what's really happening there, right.

00:11:13
When you break it down, it's fear. You're afraid of what the other person may think. You're afraid of maybe consequences or whatnot. And when you're coming from a place of fear, nothing is going to work out for you. Right?

00:11:32
That's not how life works. Right. It's all about coming from a place of consciousness. So what can. Do you have any tips to help people to break those walls down or peel those layers away to kind of really, like, show up as their authentic.

00:11:54
Self and put that fear, or the ego, whatever you want to call it. Put it in the back seat? Yeah, sure. Actually, so you mentioned in the beginning of the conversation some of my background and kind of the sort of science of behavior change. And so the last five, six years.

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Or so has been a real in. Depth journey for me in learning more. About myself and others at the microscopic level. Right. And understanding.

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I still operate with sort of an athlete's mindset. And so I'm always learning what works, what do I need to adjust, what do I need to change? And so coming out of big consulting. For me, one of the prompts for. Me to change where I'm at now.

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Was I just felt like we weren't. Putting into place structures that actually worked with how people actually change. I would sit around in training classes, or we would do all these different change management techniques, and I'm like, none of this works. Nobody's actually changing. And so it got me to thinking.

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About how do we. How do we understand ourselves differently? This is a little lead up to your question. The first thing I think it's important to do is understand your brain and how your brain works. And there's a great book that I.

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Would recommend your listeners read. It's by a woman named Doctor Lisa Feldman Barrett. She's one of the foremost neuroscientists in the world. And the book is called how emotions are made. And it talks about our misunderstanding for.

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Years about the origination of our own emotions. And to simplify it just a little bit, and this is where I'm getting to fear comes from, is our brains are prediction machines. So it used to be that you think, here's my brain, here's my body, something happens to me, that stimulus creates an emotional response. It could be joy, it could be fear. Someone could cut you off on the road.

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You know, whatever it may be, truth is there's a space in between there, which is my brain actually has a stimulus, and it guesses what the next action is going to be in my life based on the experiences that I've had. Right. And then it forms an emotion and. Our emotion is the distance between. How accurate was that prediction?

00:14:19
And so what fear is for a lot of us, and I'm not trying to say emotions aren't real. We obviously feel them. They're very real, salient experiences. Yeah, but if you took us, you. Just spoke at a conference.

00:14:31
I was on a panel the other day. Right. Speaking, public speaking is one of, like, next to death in terms of, like, people's fear. If you've never done it before, what your brain does is go, oh, this. Is going to be an awful experience.

00:14:43
My voice is going to crack. I'm going to forget what I'm saying or whatever. Right. You start to predict outcomes and that. Triggers anxiety if you've done it a hundred times.

00:14:53
Right. My predictions are all based on what I've done in the past. And so I share that to just say part of what I think people. Need to do is stop listening to their brain's initial predictions of what's going to happen next. Right.

00:15:10
If I admit I'm wrong, then fill in the blank and I don't want to do that. Or if I admit I don't understand something, people are going to think I'm not smart. Fill in the blank. You've got to sort of turn off. Your initial reaction because oftentimes your initial.

00:15:27
Reaction is just predicting or protecting you from what you think may happen. And you're not even aware of it. You're not even conscious of it. So that's a very technical answer to. Say, it's okay to not listen to your reactions.

00:15:43
It's okay to go, what if I'm wrong? What if my body's just protecting myself? What if my brain is just guessing wrong? People get laid off all the time. And you hear stories of, I got laid off and it was the best.

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Thing that ever happened to me because. Freed me up to go do something else or whatever it may be. I had a relationship that ended and I thought my life was going to. Be over and it turned out it's. The best version of myself that I've ever experienced.

00:16:11
Right. And so, yeah, so I think that's first. And I would encourage everyone to read or listen to the book. It really has fundamentally changed the way. I think about my own sort of.

00:16:25
Computer and the way that my brain operates. I love that answer. Thank you for going for, and I hadn't heard it explained like that before. Because I know that, like how I interpreted that to just really dumb it. Down is like we just start making up stories.

00:16:43
We do. We do. It's just a story we're making up. Right? Yeah.

00:16:47
And that story is, is referenced only to your own experience. Right. You can't, you, Sandee can't make up. A story about Michael's life and Michael. Can'T make up one about you.

00:16:57
So if someone asked us the same question, you and I are going to. Have two very different stories and predictions, which in the change world. And this is what's so interesting about clients and it's kind of big groups. Multiply that by a thousand. Multiply that by 5000 people in a company.

00:17:15
Why would we expect the same question to change everyone in the same way? It wouldn't because we all have different stories. Right? Yeah. And our body and our minds, because.

00:17:28
Of our DNA, because it goes back centuries upon centuries. Right. We're always drawn toward fear. That's, that's our default, is to go towards fear. Yeah.

00:17:40
And it made sense. Right. You know, 5000 years ago when it was like, you know, lions, tigers and bears and where am I gonna get my next meal from, you know. Yeah. The fear was such a predominant way of being.

00:17:57
Yeah. And it was a survival. Whereas today it doesn't serve us the. Way it used to. Yeah.

00:18:05
And I think the other great example of that is stress. Right? So people, we have a very, I think our relationship with stress over time. Has evolved in ways that stress is bad. Right.

00:18:21
We have this narrative, stress is bad. And the truth is the stress response is a generic physiological response that your. Body does unconsciously designed for you to act and move for a protectionist response. And of course, that's happened over millions of thousands of years. But today, if I go up into.

00:18:46
My public speaking example and I am. Stressed, that response is neither good nor bad. It's simply my body's way of priming me for focus, alertness and activity. But we've sort of taken every stress response as I should never be stressed. Stress in the near term is very good for us.

00:19:09
Right. The human body was designed under stress. We learn under stress. You want to know how to make. Someone remember an experience, make it stressful.

00:19:18
Make it highly emotionally salient. That's what you remember. Right? You remember the highs and the lows. And so, yes, long term stress, of course, is very bad.

00:19:27
We know that from a science perspective and there are versions of stress that are highly traumatic. And I would never minimize the impact of that on people's lives. But stress is a good thing. And we've sort of tried to, I. Think, anesthetize ourselves to some of those experiences, but it's something to listen to.

00:19:46
Right. So instead of thinking about fear, think about it as stress and the stress response designed for me to focus on the moment. And when I do that, I change the narrative of I'm afraid to, I'm. Focused and I'm ready. Right.

00:20:02
That's a way to get people one of the greatest phrases I've ever heard. I use this with athletes a lot, is, it's okay to have butterflies. Just try to get them to fly in formation. Right. And so it's your body's way of priming you to be ready.

00:20:17
It's normal. Oh, yeah. I mean, I used to tell my skaters before they would step out on the ice to compete. Like, this is normal. If you didn't have the butterflies, there's something wrong with you.

00:20:28
Right. And it's because of that that you're. Going to perform at a higher level. Yeah. You care about it.

00:20:36
Yeah. Yeah. And there's ways to get in front of that in the sense of, like, I always say, so I'm like a cold shower guy. I do a cold shower every day. Took one this morning.

00:20:49
It's awful. Right. It's not fun, and it's never not fun. Right. But two minutes of that experience.

00:20:57
First of all, it triggers the release of adrenaline from your adrenal glands. It's really good for you, for your immune system. Right. The stress response, by the way, also fights bacteria. It fights viral infections.

00:21:10
Right. It's designed to prime your body. You release white blood cells, all of this great stuff. But it also makes me more resilient to moments where I'm in meetings and I'm like, wow, this is really hard. But I'm like, you know what?

00:21:22
If I can do that, I can do this. And so I'll actually tell a little. Story, if you don't mind about it. Please do. Yeah.

00:21:30
My first time in the government so. Many, many years ago, and it's like 1998 during the war in Kosovo, and a lot of people may not remember that, but there was this really bad guy, Yugoslavia, in Serbia, former Yugoslavia, and. We were going to get him, and. There was an air campaign. I worked in the Pentagon.

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I was, like, 25 years old, and. I was the chief air defense analyst in the Pentagon to the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of staff. I'm 25 years old. I don't know anything. I just raised my hand and was willing to go do the work.

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The first day of the air campaign. I'd been working for, like, 18 or 20 hours, and they call me up, they say, hey, they want you upstairs. And I don't know who they is. I go upstairs, I walk in the room, and it's, you know anything about the military? It's like the assistant chairman.

00:22:21
It's the j one. The j two. There's more stars in this room on people's shoulders than I can count. There's two sitting house of representative folks. There's the, like the chief of staff of the air Force.

00:22:33
Right. It's. There's probably a thousand years of experience in this room. And I'm 25 years old, and I walk into the room and I sit down and they say, tell us what happened today. And, I mean, I still remember the feeling of the stress response in my body.

00:22:49
I was terrified. Right? Yeah. And then you just. You just go, right.

00:22:55
You just start talking and moving through it. And I remember to this day, I actually used to stutter really bad when I was a kid. And my wife teases me. She's like, I can't imagine that you would do that. And I'm like, but, yeah, once you get through an experience like that, you can get through anything, right?

00:23:12
You. I'm going to be okay, right? I survived. I'm going to be fine. But if we listened to that story.

00:23:18
In our lives, you would freeze. Right. But. But that's not how the system works. Yeah, I love that.

00:23:25
And. And I always tell people and my clients and whatnot, you know, keep a badass list. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that you can refer back to it. Like, for me, my biggest.

00:23:36
I mean, I've done a lot of. Great things, but the one thing, because it was more physical that, that I always refer back to when you were just saying, oh, if I can do that, I can do this, was, I. Did the marine corps marathon, and I. Completed it, and I'm like, if I can freaking run for almost 5 hours nonstop, which I did. I didn't stop to walk or anything like that.

00:24:00
I ran the whole way. Good for you. Like, I can do anything. Yeah. Yeah.

00:24:05
So there's something interesting about that is that actually there's a region of your brain, it's called the anterior mid singular cortex, for technical term. And they've shown that in particularly people who are athletes, this brain region is bigger. And it is the brain region that when you do hard things, particularly things you don't want to do, that area of your brain is much more active, and it's the part of your brain that actually controls all your physiological responses. So people who are first responders showing up on scenes of catastrophe. We've seen many of these examples.

00:24:42
People who are in the military, people who are law enforcement, they walk into situations that the average person would be terrified of, but they've trained that part of them to be able to respond to that differently. What I would encourage people to do. Back to your question of how to. Be a better leader, is do really, really hard things that you are afraid of. It will actually change your brain.

00:25:09
It'll make your body more efficient in how you assign resources in terms of hormones, your heart rate, all of this stuff. It'll make you more calm, more poised, and more willing to try to do hard things, which makes you a better leader by example. Right. Because if I'm willing to do a hard thing, and someone on my team is going to do the same thing, so it's really, really cool. And so I've been running more.

00:25:33
I've been doing certain things every day. I take a cold shower, I go. My anterior mid cingulate cortex just got a little bit bigger, and I get pretty jazzed up about it. I was thinking that when you were talking about it, because I've always wanted to try the ice bath, and I'm a member of. Of this chain where they have the cryotherapy and red light and infrared.

00:25:54
You know, the iv's the whole thing. And that's the one service there I. Haven'T done yet is the cryo. And I'm a. I'm a professional figure skater.

00:26:03
Like, I'm not afraid of the cold. Right. But in the cold, naked. Yeah, that's my question. My question.

00:26:11
Just to lighten this up. Yeah. Do you turn on the cold shower and then gradually make it warm and then complete it with a warm shower, or you just do cold and then out the door? I just. Cold and out.

00:26:23
Wow. Okay. Because when you were talking about it, I'm like, okay, I'm sure it, like, gets warm and then you warm up in there. No, no, it's. The winter is pretty rough because the water in your pipes is, you know.

00:26:36
It'S about 45 degrees water wise. Yeah. But you. But you do, right? You get that sponse.

00:26:43
You know, your breath starts increasing rapidly. Right. It's hard to breathe, actually. You can also just do that. You can learn how to breathe that way and actually trigger the same stress response.

00:26:52
But, um, it's great. I rarely get sick. Um, I concentrate better. My focus is better on days when I don't do it. I don't do it on the weekends.

00:27:03
I give myself a little bit of. A break, but if I need to. Sit down to do a bunch of writing or before podcast or before a big meeting, it is just. I notice the difference when I don't do it. Well to break it down.

00:27:19
Just really simple. When you splash cold water on your face, you get an immediate response as well. Yeah, yeah. There. There's all other great.

00:27:27
I mean, saunas are really good, again, for triggering stress responses. There's all sorts of ways to. To step into this behavior in a way that, that gives you the confidence to kind of move into the next big thing that you might be struggling with or, you know, nervous about. And whatever it may be, maybe it's a hard conversation. One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was, you know, how to do a hard conversation.

00:27:52
You just do it right there. You just do it. And. And you get through it. Right.

00:27:56
And then when you get through it, you'll. You'll figure out what you learned, what you maybe could have done differently, and you'll have more confidence to do the next one. Right. So. Well, there's a reason that Nike has.

00:28:06
That as their tagline. That's right. Yeah. Just do it. Yeah.

00:28:11
And it's one of the things that one of my clients, years ago in the air Force, actually, I have these sort of six principles of human transformation that I kind of focus on about if you want to change something about yourselves. And one of them is called initiating movement. And I got this from him. It's just a wonderful phrase. Right.

00:28:31
Initiate movement. Don't worry about doing everything. Do the next thing. Right. Focus on the next activity.

00:28:37
Just move your body, and that. That could be cognitive. Right. Move into the next action, whatever it is. But.

00:28:44
But so many of us spend too. Long preparing to move, and that just. Stops the learning that could be happening if we had already started. Right. And so that, for me, is just a huge principle of just start, just take the next action, and then you'll figure out the next one.

00:29:00
Right. So. So, for me, it's just a big. Principle that I try to live by. I love it.

00:29:05
I love it. So is there anything else that you'd like to share with the audience? We've had such an amazing conversation. Thank you so much. But is there anything else that we haven't talked about that you'd like to throw out there?

00:29:16
Your website, any. Yeah. So my website, Michael Lopez dot coach site, in terms of the no.com. But I did that for a reason. And I, you know, I sort of identify as a coach.

00:29:30
That term, I think, gets thrown around a lot today. There's a lot of different coaches. I think coaches are wonderful. You know, I am also a consultant. I'm an advisor, and I use those phrases a little bit interchangeably.

00:29:43
But I've always said as a coach, I believe I have three obligations. And the first one is to help. My clients step into difficult conversations and. Experiences, but that are difficult but necessary. The conversation we just had.

00:30:02
The second is to help them through that process, right. Is to understand and to be there as a source of support, just like I do for athletes on the field, right. When we go, I coach high school football still and it's one of my passions and I love it and it's a way to give back. And, you know, we don't send athletes onto the field and then just leave them alone. We're there with them the whole time, right, going through feedback and all that sort of stuff.

00:30:25
And then the third, like we talked about, is to lead by example. And so I've just found that a. Lot of the transformational narrative that I think has come. I'm going to poke big consulting in. The eye here a little bit.

00:30:39
There's wonderful things from there. And again, I'm grateful. I think we need to think differently. About how we change, why we change. How long it takes to change what's required in order to make that happen.

00:30:54
My purpose has been to have the no kidding conversation with, with clients. Right. This is what it takes. It's not easy. It's not easy on purpose.

00:31:03
And so. But there's a path, right. And I always say that there's a formula for change, but change isn't formulaic. Right? So your perfect blend of these six principles might be different than mine because you've got different experiences and your brain's telling you different stories.

00:31:17
And so I just think that it's a great time to be having this conversation with people. And you, you know, know, people can schedule 15 minutes with me whenever they want. And I love it. I do this because I believe in it. So I'm here for it and I'm here to keep helping people work through the process.

00:31:36
Love it. Well, thank you so much for what you're doing and for your service to the country in all those capacities. Thank you so much, Michael. You bet. Thank you.

00:31:47
Thanks for the time today. It's been wonderful. Sandee. Yeah. Thank you.

00:31:50
And thank you, everyone.

00:32:04
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As a member, you also get access to a series of mindset training sessions. These recordings are tailored to help you understand the how and why your mindset is the most important asset you have, empowering you to achieve your personal and professional goals. And for those of you looking to find a moment of peace in your busy lives, we've got something special. Exclusive guided meditations. These sessions are crafted to help you relax, refocus and recharge.

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Whether you're a meditation guru or just starting out, there's something here for everyone. Becoming a member is more than just accessing extra content. It's about joining a community of like minded individuals, all on a journey to live life to its fullest and become the best possible version of you. So how can you join? It's simple.

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Go to happinesssolved dot supercast.com and sign up. Don't miss out on this opportunity to deepen your journey with us. Again, that's happinesssolved dot supercast.com and it will also be in the show notes I am so grateful you're a part of our happiness solved family, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your continued support. Again, I am so grateful for you, and I hope that you and your family are healthy and safe and that your lives are filled with peace, joy and happiness. Take care, everyone.